No Way Out
Welcome to the No Way Out podcast where we examine the variety of domains and disciplines behind John R. Boyd’s OODA sketch and why, today, more than ever, it is an imperative to understand Boyd’s axiomatic sketch of how organisms, individuals, teams, corporations, and governments comprehend, shape, and adapt in our VUCA world.
No Way Out
Challenging Narratives with Starfire Codes: Consciousness, Media Manipulation, and Ancient Mysteries with Demi Pietchell
What if everything you thought you knew about history, science, and media was just one version of the truth? Demi Pietchell, the creative mind behind Starfire Codes, joins us to unpack a range of controversial topics. From being deplatformed on Twitter for discussing graphene in vaccines to exploring how comedians like Jimmy Dore and JP Sears are shaking up the media landscape, Demi shares insights that challenge mainstream narratives and encourage open dialogue. We navigate the turbulent waters of free speech in the digital age, examining how platforms like Substack are emerging as sanctuaries for unrestricted conversation.
The journey doesn't stop there. We traverse the realms of consciousness and energy, discussing how our beliefs might actually shape our realities. Through revelations from quantum physics and metaphysical literature, Demi guides us into a universe where consciousness pervades all matter. We explore the impact of gratitude and positive energy on the world around us, questioning the hidden potential within our everyday actions. As we delve into ancient civilizations, the suppression of information, and the potential interconnectedness of past cultures, our conversation urges listeners to keep questioning the stories we've been told and the reality we're creating.
In a world where media can manipulate and information might be controlled, we dissect the narratives that shape our understanding of historical events, like the JFK assassination and the Vietnam War. Demi helps us examine how early exposure to influential films has molded our perceptions and why it’s vital to remain vigilant and open-minded. As we unravel these complex threads, listeners are encouraged to explore different perspectives and remain curious about the truths hidden in plain sight. Join us for this thought-provoking episode that promises to challenge your assumptions and broaden your horizons.
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Substack: The Whirl of ReOrientation
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Recent podcasts where you’ll also find Mark and Ponch:
so, punch, we we get a lot of uh, interesting commentary and we meet a lot of fascinating people and we, we are certainly, uh we're not afraid to to go and explore certain areas, like we talk a lot about psychedelics, uh, and now I we today, with demy pitchell joining us, I, I don't even know, uh, I can't even begin to tell you how excited I am. Demi, we want to welcome you. Your work is really just fascinating and illuminating and we can't recommend it enough. We're really looking forward to this conversation.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Thank you so much for having me on. It's an honor, thank you.
Mark McGrath:So I guess what I was getting at is people think like these guys are out there. Well, yeah, we are out there, and we love bringing in people that are quote unquote out there, because we think somewhere out there lies the truth, and that's what the X-Files.
Ponch Rivera:is that what that was from Could be?
Mark McGrath:Yeah, the truth is out there.
Ponch Rivera:Yeah.
Mark McGrath:So you've got this amazing sub stacks, starfire Codes, and you do these amazing articles and meme drops. The meme drops are just absolutely worth their weight in gold. Why don't you tell us your story, give us the background on all this?
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Well, thank you so much. It's a pleasure and an honor to be here. I started the Starfire Codes around, I want to say July of 2021. And it was after getting deplatformed from twitter. Basically, no, it was. It was just before I got deplatformed. I was quoting a doctor and uh, and they, they got rid of me for quoting a doctor yeah, you can't do that what tell us more?
Mark McGrath:so you got deplatformed from Twitter for quoting a doctor about vaccines.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:About graphene. Actually it was Andreas Noah and he had just passed away and I was quoting his statement about graphene in the shot and what it could be doing to people and why it could be causing myocarditis and things like that. So I was quoting his you know his whole statement about that and I got immediately perma-banned. I don't know if.
Ponch Rivera:Mark knows this, but I get a lot of hate emails now about talking about vaccines and things like that. Hey, you shouldn't be talking about that because it's sensitive. And I'm like what do you do when you're at work? Do you avoid the sensitive things? You know those hard to talk about things. When you're at work, do you avoid the sensitive things, those hard to talk about things? You just go. Ah, we'll ignore that. Those weak signals. So getting deep platform was it happened? I didn't do a lot of. I tried to stay neutral, I tried to hide over the last four or five years, but a lot of my friends got kicked off of Facebook, twitter, back then LinkedIn and today. I like the fact that we can have conversations about this, and it's not to say that we're right. It's to say, hey, we have information that we want to share with folks. Sure, and that's all about weak signal detection, multiple perspectives, which is absolutely critical. So tell us more about the last few years and getting thrown off of the platform. And now you came back to Starfire Code.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Well, even speaking to what you're saying about, you know, having those kinds of conversations and making it possible to have those kinds of conversations. That's what I like to do with the meme drops. I like to bring humor to the situation so that people it causes an icebreaker. But that's why humor and comedy have been attacked. That's why comedy has been the brunt of so much activism about political correctness in comedy and it's because it can be used as an icebreaker to have those more difficult conversations and when people are stifled from using it, then they can. Went over that and how much ice it broke, that people were actually able to talk about it and Jimmy Dore as well, he did one and it really broke the ice on that.
Mark McGrath:Yeah, jimmy Dore, we need that. I'm glad you brought up Jimmy Dore. I went to go see him in Columbus a couple years ago and I also saw there's a guy called JP Sears, yeah. So what I thought was crazy was that all of a sudden, comedians were. That's the only place where you could get the real news Right. So, jimmy Dore, jp Sears, the Babylon Bee Right, it's like they're telling the truth. You know, they're reporting things in a way that that that is going against the quote unquote mainstream narrative.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Yeah, parody is protected speech, so they couldn't go after that.
Mark McGrath:That's why that is so like everyone is, a comedian was able to actually Gen Xer. I was born in 76, but I think of being a kid. You think that, like Peter Jennings, tom Brokaw and Dan Rather, those were your three options and they were kind of like your nightly news guys. Right, yeah, jimmy Dore is now. I believe Jimmy Dore is like the guy, like I mean, because he's like that in the sense that I'm actually going to find out what's really going on from a comedian and he always says, like I'm a pot smoking comedian in my garage, you know, but he's actually telling what's, what's really happening. He's able to say the things that no one wants to say or is allowed to say.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Yeah, and I think that a lot of news even if, like you know, certain people aren't touching on you know, the complete spectrum of what we need to be talking about. A lot of news shows are leaning toward that format of, you know, talking about things for a long time while pot smoking. So I think that that might be the direction that things are taking. But it's because you know the younger generation is taking over media and also, you know, because you can't get any real information from the mainstream. It's all covered up, it's all in alignment with the advertisers and the advertisers are the ones pushing the agenda. So there are pieces and parts of the people who are pushing the agenda.
Ponch Rivera:I have seen a shift in on TV series, I think Sheridan's shows like Yellowstone and then Landman there's always time in there and those shows where they try to explain how the world works or how windmills work or how something actually works. And you know, I don't know how long that's going to last, but you couldn't do that three or four years ago, right?
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Yeah, there was no way. Anything that you said and you know you would. Just, you would get a ban, like for 30 days, or you just get permabanned off of the platform. You couldn't talk about anything, even if it was a fact. It was a fact that this doctor had said this.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:I was quoting him, but, yeah, I got knocked straight off of there. And then I had to figure out how to grow my audience in other ways and I had a bit of an audience coming into this, so into this. So you know it wasn't like. You know there wasn't anybody there and I was having to build it from scratch, but you know, it might as well have been. I had almost a hundred thousand people on Twitter and I was removed from that. So you know that was my biggest audience. And even now, when I go on there, you know that people want to say that that Musk is is a proponent of free speech. But you see what's happened recently with him. You know I'm shutting down people who don't agree with him and shadowbanging people who don't agree with him, and the way that the ceo was saying, uh, only a few months ago, freedom of speech does not equal freedom of reach. Yeah, cute, but that was the entire platform that you pushed to get people to stay and to get people to buy subscriptions.
Mark McGrath:Yeah, laura Loomer, I think, was the latest one. That's the most uh uh prominent one. I think that I did notice, though, yesterday that she did get her blue check mark back, but I don't know if that.
Ponch Rivera:So here's something that I came across that freedom of speech is is um protected by our government, not necessarily by corporations. Is that correct? Is that how?
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:you guys see it. Yeah, and and you know. But if he's going to push that and he's going to say that he supports it, you know he can't double back on that. And that's really where it stands. It's a. It's a credibility factor, it's an integrity factor, it's a character factor. It's not it doesn't have to do with you know, whether it's protected or not. It's that he said that out of his own mouth and then talked out of his neck about it.
Mark McGrath:So you know about the HYP yeah.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Yeah, and and to.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:You know, to go back on that, when you know so many of his supporters are, you know, america first, you know he better have a pretty strong reason.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Now, the reasoning behind that is that you know, like the educational standards in America are not up to snuff and, yeah, we need to fix that. And, you know, pulling people in who are in the engineering sphere, who have had that kind of that kind of education and have fought hard to get their degrees, even if they were coming in from other countries. Those are the kind of people who qualify for an H-1B. So it's interesting to look at it. You know both ways. But it is a factor where there are plenty of people here who could be doing that work and are not because they're hiring people from outside of America, but also the people who are getting those degrees are coming here to do it. So for them to say that people here don't have the education, well, if you're giving more access to education to people who are from overseas, that's a topic that you're not allowed to talk about, which is shocking to me.
Mark McGrath:Well, I mean, yeah, I guess too. So we're on Substack, as are you. I mean, it's been a greater place, it seems so far to be one where the freedom of the press has not yet been infringed.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Yeah, and for people to be on there and to be able to have these conversations openly and to be able to talk to each other, even if it is, you know, um, someone who disagrees with you. That it tends to be, you know more along the lines of civil discourse on some staff, you know you, you will get people who are trolling.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:You will get people who are trying to, um, to get our eyes out of somebody, you know but yeah of course the board pretty much are going to have these open conversations with people, and that's what I've noticed and it's been hard to curate that. I still have my Facebook and my page is known for I will not tolerate anything below civil discourse, so it's automatically like you will get kicked off of there for ad hominem attacks or anything like that. So if people are talking on there, they feel safe to do so, whereas in other spaces on Facebook they won't. But it was hard to curate that. It was very difficult to keep that in check.
Mark McGrath:I mean, I've been on Facebook now off of it for five, maybe six years being. I've never regretted being off of it and I think, actually, I guess. No, I guess I couldn't go back and say it was five, it was the election of 2020. So it was five years when I just turned it off because I just yeah, I just couldn't stand, and then I guess that that's also too. That's when COVID was, was it?
Ponch Rivera:You got to remember that the argument of trust to science was trust my science, not those science right, right, and that was the battle cry over the years. And if you go back to how we named this whole podcast, from the conceptual spiral and what's in that, boyd points out that science can be viewed as a self-correcting process of observations, analysis, synthesis, hypothesis and tests. It's ongoing. It means that the science isn't set, it shouldn't be said, it can't be never right, and and that that kind of leads us into when we start looking at the I'm going to say the wish stuff. I don't mean in that way, but when you start looking at patterns in nature and you start looking at lessons from psychedelics or the patterns people experience in psychedelic assisted therapies, meditation, mindfulness, these connectedness to to the world or the universe, and if you view, there was an image recently about the universe what it looks like, it looks like DNA and it looks like the neurons in your brain. So as above, so below, or that type of thinking. So science continues to evolve. That's the bottom line. We need platforms that allow us to have that open discourse to make sure we're improving not just the science but the evolution of the human race, and you know, that probably means, according to some of our guests, that we need to explore the universe, right? So the only way to explore the universe isn't to trust the pseudoscience, it's to trust the science.
Ponch Rivera:Now I'm going to throw something at you, adimi, and that is there's a lot of things that you may talk about that a lot of folks will say is pseudoscience. I happen to be one of those people. I'm shifting my mind, believing that in the fringes there are some pretty cool things connections to quantum physics, string theory there's some amazing things that are connected in there. Quantum physics, string theory there's some amazing things that are connected in there. But I do want to get a little background on how you got into a lot of the topics you talk about on Starfire Codes.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:I started out as an atheist. I was a hardcore atheist and I sat in front of some videos on quantum physics one day and realized that all matter has consciousness. Because otherwise the double-slit experiment wouldn't work and changed my mind. I did a complete 180. Now part of that is that my mother, when I was growing up, filled the entire house with metaphysics books and I would read them cover to cover to debunk her. I would argue with her and she thought it was the most entertaining thing in the world to have this little preco. I would argue with her and she thought it was the most entertaining thing in the world to have this little precocious girl arguing with her. So she just kept filling the house with these books. So I already had all of the information in my head. It was just in the reverse. So when this happened, it recontextualized all of the information that I had read over the years and I started shifting it around. Now for me, because I understood that aspect about it and I said, okay, I have to make a shift. It was more just being honest with myself about the shift. I didn't feel any real compulsion that, like you know, oh no, my world is crumbling. I just had a new piece of information that I needed to update my worldview.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:According to, Everyone else had the problem with it. So, you know, I go back and I'm talking to my friends who are, you know, mainly atheists and things like this, and they're like, how could you believe that? And they're freaking out on me, and I think it was mainly because they couldn't set a watch by me anymore. They thought that they knew who I was and in knowing who I was, they knew who they were, and if they didn't know who they were, they could flip on a dime too. So it was difficult for them to see that in somebody else whose opinion they always respected and admired and saw eye to eye with. And if this person's changing her mind about it, I might change my mind about it. I might change my mind about it.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Now, when you go into the research that's been, you know, collated and aggregated by the Monroe Institute, where they're looking into NDEs and OBEs and things like this, whenever someone has a near-death experience, and they go into what they call the in the focus levels, the levels of belief. So there are certain levels where your focus changes and you're in those belief levels that affect the beliefs that you bring to those levels and that's where you go when you have an NDE right. So if you are there and you're looking at the world through that, when people come back from that, what they report is undeniably what they expected to see. So if they're Christian, they see something Christian. If they're Jewish, they see something Jewish. If they are Hindu, they see something Hindu. Anyone will see exactly what they expected to see. Now, for me, that leads me to believe. Maybe we're inside of an expectation engine and whatever you believe is what you end up seeing.
Ponch Rivera:Yes.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:And, in terms of that, best make it good, because if that is the case and you're seeing what you expect, you better expect something awesome. You're going to mess yourself up, right.
Mark McGrath:Yeah, it seems like that's interesting. So in other words, it's almost like a manifestation.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Yeah, exactly like a manifestation. And if you are willing that into being, you know, and if you are like, if you're looking at the double slit experiment, back to that you're collapsing the wave function. You're viewing that, you're measuring viewing that, you're measuring that, you're observing that within your mind's eye and so you're seeing what happens in terms of that when the wave collapses. So the, the implicate is affecting the extricate, so the explicate. So so when you, when you are looking at it that way and you are seeing in your mind's eye what you expect, then you start to see it within your reality and that explains sort of the mechanics behind that, how that works.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Not exactly, but you know it's pretty close. So when you are manifesting that's the way that that's happening You're moving your consciousness to viewing what it is that you expect to see. And if you're looking at it in terms of the law of conservation of energy, it conserves a lot more energy to move your consciousness than it does to move your physical objects around to get what you want. Right Dang. So you brought up so many things.
Mark McGrath:It's another case.
Ponch Rivera:Yeah, I mean, you point out so many things in that last few minutes about orientation determines how we see. What's that saying? You believe what you see or you see what you believe? Yeah, there's a difference there. And then you also brought up NDEs. We had another guest talk about it off camera with us recently.
Ponch Rivera:And you brought up the Monroe Institute I believe it's here in Virginia. And then I've been in contact with PMH Atwater and been encouraged to go drive up there and sit down with her and talk about a lot of these things. So I think, basically, having you here right now, one of the first things I got to do when we get off this call is follow up on that, because that whole idea of manifestation you know the medicine calls to you that type of thinking. There are no coincidences. The reason we have these conversations is to expand and not just our understanding of the universe, but to build that network, to create those attractors in a place. But you touched on a lot of things in there. We'll be talking more about consciousness, how everything's connected in the universe vibrations, frequencies, geometry Can you explore?
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:some more.
Ponch Rivera:Yeah, yeah, and music. Can you explore that with us and what you've been learning from the perspective of how everything's connected?
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Sure, well, if all matter has consciousness, we're able to connect with everything and everyone through that. If all of that is interconnected and we go inward in order to connect with that, that's how we're connecting back with source consciousness. So if you look at source consciousness in terms of the main consciousness of the universe that's broken apart somehow, and then you think, as above so below, into the human being and how the human being will have the psyche fragment in terms of trauma, what I believe is that the universe had some sort of traumatic experience that fragmented the consciousness and broke it apart. So what I believe we're here to do is heal that. So we're each entrusted with our own little piece of source consciousness within ourselves that we're looking through the lens of, but we can connect with all of source consciousness. We're able to do that if we go inward and do that, and a lot of the control mechanism for getting us not to do that is to go outward, but it's the implicate that affects the explicate, just like we just talked about. So if you go inward and you see what you wanted to bring about, so like if I were to see that I bring about healing and everyone else brings about healing because I affect them in the implicate, then that's what happens in the exegetes, then everyone can heal and that fragmented consciousness can come back together and reintegrate so that it would be an alchemical function at that point, and that's the way that I see it. So it's like every piece of matter, every person, every animal has a different part and facet and way of looking at things through the access to its own consciousness.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:And you'll hear, even if you go and look at some of Dolores Cannon's work, for example, she has people who talk about, like having been the consciousness of a rock for thousands of years. And when you look at it that way and you see like, you know, okay, like how different is it to be the consciousness of a rock than it is to be the consciousness of a human being, right, and even at that point, like I started to actually get upset, I was wondering that my the first thought I had in my head and this is a weird one I'm walking on the floor, does the floor get mad that I'm walking? Or does the floor accept that it's a floor and not get mad and just like, okay, I'm a floor and she's walking on me, you know, like does it get angry. It just. It struck me as something like should I be upset, you know, should I? Should? I thank the floor and, yeah, I think you should thank everything for being what it is and for doing what it can do for you.
Mark McGrath:Like down to like. You know your food and and drink. You affect the energy of your food and drink by thanking it. You've seen the thing where people are cursing water and then they're telling water they love it and then they analyze it. Um well, punch, where we just talking about that with somebody. We were.
Ponch Rivera:But you know, that brings up the when we were younger and we watched the movie ghostbusters, right, and I think it's ghostbusters 2, where they were talking to the slime and all that. I was like, oh, come on, now you know, I get it. We've had folks talk about that. We know that there's been experiments where you freeze ice or freeze water and you get different patterns in it based off of the energy that was around it prior to it freezing. Yeah, so, and they were starting to see. You know, I have friends. Let me make sure I say this the right way. I Let me make sure I say this the right way. I know people that talk to plants, okay, and I have a family member that talked to trees and learn their names. I mean, I don't think they're crazy or anything, I just think they're more connected than I am.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:So there's been experiments where people talk to plants and the plants that they talk to. If they talk kindly to the plant, the plant will grow better. And if they talk, you know, angrily or, you know, dishearteningly to the plant, the plant will will start to sh and you'll see that in houseplants. If the houseplants are in an energy of a home that has a lot of strife, the houseplants will start to absorb the strife in the house and they'll die. So it's a good thing to get rid of those plants and change them out at that point if you can't nurse them back to health.
Mark McGrath:I find that dogs are in tune to these things.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:For sure, all kinds of pets, and they'll know when you need them, even if you're just sad, yeah, they'll come up to you immediately, like you know. Hey, what's wrong with my human, you know.
Mark McGrath:And they can communicate without communicating, you know, like they don't.
Mark McGrath:There's the implicit communication that they're able to do and the implicit sense making that they're able to do, yeah, wow, communication that they're able to do and the implicit sense making that they're able to do wow punch. It's almost like it's another case of a guest that knows everything about john boyd and knows nothing about john boyd. I mean, these are the types of things that he was, he was pursuing, I think, a higher level of consciousness and learning where we can become more attuned to what's actually really going on, because ultimately, our perceptions have to be matched to what's actually going on, or else we're not going to be able to what's actually going on, or else we're not going to be able to be excellent, we're not going to be able to thrive. And we weren't put here to going back to you talking about being an atheist or whatever. There's clearly some kind of a design. I don't think we're designed for inferiority or mediocrity. I think we're designed for excellence, and everything that we're equipped with cognitively and even physically empowers us to do that.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:And we're able to follow those signals. When you talk about synchronicities and things like that, that, you see that happen in front of you. The different breadcrumbs like you being led to go talk to PMH, which I think is a great idea she's wonderful. The steps that you take towards those things will show you what you're meant to learn or will lead you to your blessings and your lessons are blessings too. They lead you to wisdom.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:So if you're following that and you know that you're following the compass toward that, if we are in here and if it is some sort of expectation engine and we are getting signals from beyond because we're being led in a certain direction that will help us to grow, it's better to tune into that, because our higher selves know better than we do what's necessary, because they can see the blueprint when we can't.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:So if you're getting those kinds of signals and you're playing sort of like a game of hot or colder with the universe, you can figure it out that way, because you'll be set in certain directions where things feel good and resonate and certain directions where they don't, and you have to recognize when they don't. Don't fight against it. Move in the direction that it does, because the things that are meant for you will take more easily than the things that don't. It's because they're not meant for you. It's not because you're supposed to fight and struggle and acquire it in that way. It's because there's something better that's easier for you to do down this other path. Go in that direction instead.
Mark McGrath:Talk to us about channeling information.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:It depends which way that you do it. So there's alpha bridge to theta in terms of brainwaves, brainwave patterns. You can tune into theta through alpha. There's a bridge there that you can kind of like go back and forth and bring information out of theta. Delta is when you're. You're just completely asleep, so you're not really going to get information back from that. But theta is like a step up, so like when, when you're, that you can actually access. So when you're lucid dreaming, that's in theta. If you're um shamanic journeying, drum journeying, that's alpha bridge to theta. Then you've got um.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Meditation is alpha bridge to theta.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:So you have all of these different ways of pulling information that way.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:But then also channeling can come in at a very high vibration, which is gamma, and that basically, if you see somebody doing that, they're talking very rapidly. They might be laughing really hard because their frequency is so high, their vibration is so high that they're cracking up laughing and the way that they're talking so fast it will seem like a manic tirade. But they're pulling in all this information and it's so fast that they're not able to be able to communicate it fast enough. So that's why they start spewing it out like that, because it feels like it's coming in all at once and if I don't say it right now, it's going to be gone. And if you try to slow it down, it's very difficult to do that. You have to try to just let it flow and let it through and to ask your guides. Can you please slow this down a little bit or keep doing it over again so that I can understand it and I'm pulling out more of the information that I need to convey?
Ponch Rivera:Demi, when you were talking about that, I brought this slide up, which is a flow cycle and it has the different waves that you were talking about. So the flow cycle that we understand is you go, it's a recovery, struggle, release, flow, right, and so basically we have to recover. And going back to the brainwaves, can you go a little deeper into that as to what you've learned from the science about them, if there's any science behind that, and then how important they are for, I guess, connectedness to not just the internal connectedness but connectedness to each other.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:So beta is when you're awake and then alpha is when you're sort of in a meditative state.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:But you can like bridge into theta from there and theta is your flow state. So you're pulling information through in that way and that helps with your interconnectedness by being able to go inward and pull that information back. But you can ask questions when you're in there, like that, and that would be, like you know, doing like focus 10, focus 12. If you're like going by Monroe's chart, you know, focus 10, focus 12, focus 15, things like that would be those kinds of states where you're reaching into, to pull information in that way alpha bridge to theta and then for shamanic journeying, that's what that would be too. So if you're doing a drum journey, it's at a certain beat and pace, the drumming that puts you into sort of a trance, opposed to just sleeping and lucid dreaming straight through. Because if you're being brought in and out of that state then you're more apt to be able to control it, because you're more awake and aware within the dream state than you would ordinarily be if you weren't flowing in and out of it.
Ponch Rivera:Okay, no, thanks for that. Sure, so I have a device upstairs called the BrainTap and it has different I don't know frequencies. It's pretty cool. Dr Porter was on our show a while ago and we've had some actually a guest, a doctor from Yale, talk about this a little bit, but this is real. I mean, this isn't nonsense. That's what we're gathering. Anyway, in the past I would have told you yeah, go away, woo person, and go back in your flowing robes, and you know, you told me that too.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:But here we are.
Ponch Rivera:Here we are. We're talking about and we know Navy SEALs that are looking at meditation and same thing, and this is what they do after they left active duty. And people that we worked with that are hard chargers that I'll say that they're killers, they're killing machines or were here. They are on the recovery side of that flow cycle where they're trying to get back to being human. And I'm not saying they're not human, by the way, I'm just saying it's a nasty business in the military to go from yeah.
Ponch Rivera:So that's a process, yeah, to go out and then come back and really the military and VA does nothing to help us recover other than give you drugs and we have episodes on that too. Right, the cocktail of pharmaceutical drugs, but this is real and music, vibrations, frequencies. The more I learn about this is everything seems to be vibration or energy. Can you talk a little bit about that? Is that true?
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Yes, and in different ways, because there's a spectrum of that right. So you've got light energy, sound energy, different things like that. You've had people who have done research on sound healing frequencies. Like you know the old buildings People think you know, the reason why they had organs in them was to heal the organs. So you would play music on the organ and a lot of those pipe organs. You know, yeah, they run off of air at this point, but they used to run off of water. A lot of those pipe organs. You know, um, yeah, they run off of air at this point, but they used to run off of water a lot of them. It would charge up water and send that through.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:So if you're thinking that in terms of water consciousness, like what we were talking about before, it makes sense that the sound frequency is affecting the water and then, if people are consuming that water, it has a different state and flow within your body because your body's mostly water. So, as you're talking to your food and your drink and you're taking on the frequency of the food and the drink because you've spoken to it kindly and brought it into your body with certain intentions set within it too, you can do that as well. It's not just telling your food I love you and thank you, which is great. It's great to show gratitude, but you can also set an intention like please help me heal, Please, when you come into my body, do X, y and Z.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:You can talk to plants that way too, especially plants that you consume, so you can do it that way. And some people program seeds before they put the seeds in the ground and will hold them in their mouths for a while so that their um, so that their dna through their saliva and also their water consciousness through the saliva, will have a connection with the seed. So that you know what people say is that the seed will intuit with the body needs and, as it grows like that plant, will help you to heal with whatever it is that's up with your body. Now I don't know how many people have done studies on that. I haven't seen that, but I've heard that anecdotally that people do that, that that was a traditional thing, which is interesting it's amazing how so many of the things that we're discussing and the things that you talk about, d Demi, are ancient.
Mark McGrath:These things are thousands of years old and to think that all of a sudden they're out of favor because there's a sort of a synthetic I don't know what that just emerged in the last, say, 100 years, and sort of, maybe it's the westernized industrial model or something that disconnects us from what humans have known for ages.
Ponch Rivera:Lewis tell me how about this? It's the. We go back to the strategic game of question mark and question mark. It's about control, right, yeah, if I take away your access to information, I can control you right, and that's.
Ponch Rivera:I think that's kind of human nature too. So it is possible that you know. The purpose of a church is to control information, the flow of information. If we have direct access to information, why do I need a church, right, right? Think about a pharmaceutical company. If I can connect to the earth, if I can be healed by what's been around for thousands of years, there's no business model for that. How do you patent Ibogaine or Iboga, right? Or how do you?
Mark McGrath:patent psilocybin right. Did you see, brogan, the other day had Mel Gibson on and they were talking about.
Mark McGrath:Yeah, Did you see? Brogan the other day had Mel Gibson on and they were talking about yeah, and he was talking about the church, but he was saying that what Mel Gibson was saying was that the faith had been disconnected from the church. Summarizing it but, like he says, I'm all in on the faith but the physical apparatus of the church that has changed the rules and is sort of set up like he called. He called it like a counter church or like a yeah, yeah, but to Pontius's point.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:It's about control.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Yeah, and when you get into thinking about that in terms of like, why would you have a confessional? Why would you be told that you need to tell somebody all of your sins if they didn't want to control you, if they didn't want to have access to that information straight out of the horse's mouth to know what you did, so that they could come back around and control you in some way or blackmail you in some way, hold that against you? Why would you have to do that if you could go inward and confess that to God yourself within your own heart, if you had to do that and somebody could collect that on you? It's stepping in in the explicate instead of being able to go in through the implicate and heal in that way. So it's taking your agency away and there are certain like aspects of like the church anyway, where, like you've, you've got a certain amount of people who have access to occulted, hidden information where the rest of the masses don't have that. So you know there's a reason for that.
Mark McGrath:There's a reason that that's kept away from everyone yeah, it's interesting to see, like, what the church suppresses um for sure so, yeah, I'm, yeah, just, you know, just not to discuss religion, but I'm a Roman Catholic baptized, practical I'd say.
Mark McGrath:But I do see what Mel Gibson is talking about was like the difference between the faith and the apparatus, because the things that get suppressed, like you know, certain types of worship gets suppressed, like the traditional mass is suppressed. Here's a real example. So we talk about a lot studying John Boyd was Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, who was a Jesuit priest. He was a paleontologist and a philosopher and he came up with this concept of all the things we're really talking about. You know, energy, energies united, how we're all moving forward and upward to this. What he called the Omega called the Omega, but it wasn't until the second to last pope that Teilhard was even allowed to be discussed because he was on a list of banned books or banned thinkers and you can think of so many over time.
Mark McGrath:The famous guy, he got burned at the stake. I can't think of his name off the top of my head, but a lot of these guys that were correct. Something as simple as the sun being in the center of a solar system or the earth is not flat. You know these ideas, in fact, what Pancho said earlier about you have to quote unquote trust the science, but the science is always changing. Science in our becoming is always our ability to it is that conceptual spiral where we're learning more and more and we're building off. We're building off with the idea that we don't know exactly where we're headed, because we can never actually know. We have to keep anticipating and moving forward.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Sure, and it's always safe to say that there's more there. That's what I always say to people. How many books of the Bible were banned?
Mark McGrath:Yeah, like the Gospel of Thomas you know at.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:You know, like the gospel of thomas, yeah, you know, and, and supposedly there used to be 777, but only 66 were let through. Who says and? And who has access to that? Now I want to know what all of that information was. I want to know how that information changes the context and texture of what we're all taught. You know, there's more there. It's not that there's less. There's not that there's anything taking away from anybody having faith or anybody, you know, becoming a part of, of any religion that they're. They're on some sort of track where they're like, looking to find truth. That's always a valuable thing, but what's missing? What is being suppressed? Where is it being suppressed and why? And and all of the different artifacts around the world that people are are scooping up and and hiding from people because they don't want people to know what the old tech was like and the buildings that are getting destroyed over, you know, over the entire world talk more about that, tell us more about that okay, because you've had.
Mark McGrath:You've had some beautiful articles where you show the difference between modern architecture and classical architecture, ancient architecture. Tell us more about that.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Yeah. So we have no idea about our history. We were completely detached from our roots and you can see it in architecture, because architecture on every single continent has different phases of it that match up. You have quote unquote Greco-Roman buildings on every single continent has different phases of it that match up. You have quote, unquote Greco Roman buildings on on every single continent. Why, you know, if that's quote unquote Greco Roman, how did that happen? You know that doesn't make any sense with pillars and things like that.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:And they say it's like, you know, Greco Roman revival. No, it's from the same time period. You can look at it and see that it was built in the same way. It's the same thing as saying, like you know, okay, so the skyscrapers that are here are different from the skyscrapers that were there. Okay, so are you saying that those people had no contact? They're still making skyscrapers? Are you saying that the people who made pyramids here and pyramids there and pyramids everywhere didn't have contact with each other? There's still pyramids. It might be a different style of pyramid, but it's still a pyramid. So these are all different stylistic versions of things that we go through and you can see where all of the different continents have contact with each other. Also, we have underground tunnels that are worldwide, Ancient underground tunnels that are worldwide. They found proto-Hindu artifacts in tunnels in peru explain that you know you can't unless everyone's had contact you can't explain it.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:and there's so many instances of things like that of the smithsonian possibly having covered up quote-unquote egyptian artifacts that were in the grand canyon at the turn of the century and there's all kinds of evidence of this, because there's old newspapers that are talking about this and then the Smithsonian said that they didn't exist, but then there were still armed guards in the Grand Canyon. So I've heard this.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:yeah yeah, yeah, I'm gonna look at this one so, yeah, so if, if you go back and you look at um, just if you look at the, the smithsonian, you look up cover-up and you look up um egyptian artifacts in the grand canyon, you'll see, you'll see a ton of information on it. You'll see a ton of people trying to debunk it too, but it was in the papers and things like that. But they, you know, they were saying like, oh, this was never a thing. Yeah. But then you've also got gold mines. Gold mines like human beings had to have done that. That's a gold mine 200 000 years old in africa, near south africa, 200 000 year old gold mines. Why were they mining coal? What were were they doing? What was that civilization like? Yeah, yeah.
Ponch Rivera:You know, there's so much there, there's so much that we're so separated from.
Mark McGrath:Like a lot of the stuff that Graham Hancock asked questions about. If you've ever seen Graham Hancock or Randall Carlson, yeah.
Ponch Rivera:Yeah, On the I think it was on Joe Rogan the other day they were talking about LIDAR and the rainforest and the Amazon rainforest, that actually there's large cities that are there and we follow a lot of what's going on with the pyramids, with the sarcophagus and connection, the geometry in there, and one thing that growing up I always thought Egypt was so far away from Jerusalem. It's not that far at all, right, and there's some emerging theories that the crucifixion didn't happen where we all believe it to happen. It actually happened in the pyramids. Now, again, I'm not saying that's true, I'm just saying we have to allow this information to flow. It could be misinformation, disinformation, but we need to go back and test right.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Test these things.
Ponch Rivera:Because you just brought up the connectedness, the consciousness of the universe. Everything seems to be connected. So if that is true, then maybe we are living in a simulation, maybe I don't know. Right, something else that popped up in the last week and this was not expected, and Mark was there, moose was there when it was brought up but one of our guests mentioned that UAPs are just ancient technology from ancient civilizations that are revealing themselves to us. Right, again, I'm not saying that's true, I am saying it's a possibility. And then, going back to your point about architecture, I'm going to go back to the conceptual spiral again, page 352. Engineering can be viewed as a self-correcting process of observations, analysis, synthesis, design and test. It's the same thing, pretty similar to science, right? So we don't want to lose what we learn from ancient civilizations and I think maybe through cymatics, through hieroglyphics, they're trying to communicate to us what happened in the past. So we do not lose sight of that and, hate to say, destroy our own civilization. But we could be on that path, right?
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Yeah, and if you look at the archaeological record, if you go downward, you would think if we were evolving and we were at the top of our game, that the different things that you have further down in the archaeological record would be not as sophisticated as the things that are up at the top. But that's not what you see. In places that have jewelry as their craft, you'll see more complex jewelry down the bottom that were devolving as we've continued. You'll see more complex pottery down the bottom, supposedly built, which I don't think is true. And you have these people with horses and buggies and you have these dirt roads. There's almost no one in the picture.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:So where did all these people come from that supposedly built these palaces all over the world? Where did these people come from? They're not there, they're not in any of the pictures and I don't think Bartholomew did this with his magic chisel. I'm not in any of the pictures and I don't think bartholomew did this with his magic chisel. I'm sorry, like that's. That's not a thing. So we're being fed a story and if you look at the story that these stories always involve fires, they um, this building burned down seven different times and we had to rebuild it. That's not a thing, it's just a story and people buy it. You know they could be, could be told any story and they'll just you know. Well, this is what they said happened. So you know, they must know what the truth is.
Mark McGrath:Yeah, why do people fall for things?
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:I think they just they want to trust and they want to believe that what other people are saying, and I think that they don't want to, they don't want to second guess that. But if you, if you think about it like, even if you go back to, like castaneda, dealing with a petty tyrant is a form of shamanic initiation. So if you're dealing with somebody who's you know, like even a low-level narcissist, is a form of shamanic initiation that changes your entire consciousness, because you actually have it in your head at that point that you know not all people are good, that completely changes the. It changes the game. If you think not all people are good and you're wary of certain people, and you have that it expands your consciousness. In certain ways, you can figure out what people are up to and what's going on. You have a better way of conceptualizing what people may or may not be after and also how to keep yourself safe from people.
Ponch Rivera:Mark, I'll answer your question. The reason behind that is it takes more energy to update your orientation than it does just believe something that's already out there, right? Yeah, you don't have to go through the world of reorientation, right? You just push die believe.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:But yeah, it would also shatter you if you had to keep rebuilding from your foundation every time and I wrote about this at one point because I had to deal with so many people who were dealing with this, like back in 2020, because their core beliefs and values were being shattered by the things that they were learning what they were learning and rebuild With people who had more rigidly held beliefs. It was a lot more difficult for them to do that than for people who did not. They were able to sort through that pretty quickly, even if they got upset about it. And the interesting part about when they got upset about it, it was always the opposite of how they would ordinarily get upset about things. So when it happened to me, I usually get sad, I got angry. I don't usually get angry. I had another friend who would ordinarily attack things with a certain level of calm and composure, got completely paranoid, and somebody else was the opposite of me would usually get angry and got really sad.
Ponch Rivera:You know, I didn't get angry when I learned that dinosaurs may have evolved to have feathers or had feathers, but when we were younger we learned that they look like lizards, right?
Mark McGrath:Yeah.
Ponch Rivera:So I didn't get upset. I was like I was really curious and then I learned about exactive practices or exactive thinking that it is possible that they you know, they had feathers to keep themselves warm and feathers helped flight, maybe that they weren't designed for flight. So you get into different types of dinosaurs that were flying millions of years ago.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:What if they had feathers?
Ponch Rivera:because, they were dragons.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:We have so much dragon lore I don't know, and we don't have any dinosaur lore.
Mark McGrath:We're like broken. We're dragon believers. Remember yeah, what was it? Joy Behar was like. You know, this guy believes in dragons.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:What would be the difference? Maybe they put those skeletons together wrong who? Knows yeah right yeah, oh why is there the year of the? Dragon, yeah, exactly.
Mark McGrath:Yeah, I'm a year of the dragon.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Yeah, every other animal in the Chinese zodiac is a real animal.
Mark McGrath:Yeah, why not?
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Why don't they have pandas on there? Huh, why don't? Whoa? That's another one. Why, whoa, that's another one. Like, if you follow, like the, the lore of starfire codes yeah, our people get into that a lot with you know calling it fake ass pandas fake and there there was a lot of different, a lot of different videos that were done exploring whether pandas were actually genetically engineered. And they're not real. You know so, and it it's pretty convincing I don't think I've ever seen a panda their.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Their insides are are designed to consume meat, but they consume bamboo non-stop. They they don't procreate on their own. They can't mate, they have to be taught and they only do it like once or twice a year. There's no way that they would be able to survive in the wild. They're too roly-poly and cute. The second they would be anywhere near a predator. They would be done for, except that they taste really bad.
Ponch Rivera:That's their only defense. I was thinking maybe pandas exist as a warning to what we're evolving, to huh maybe they're alloy.
Mark McGrath:I've seen them.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:I think I've seen them at uh national zoo and maybe san diego, but like I guess I've never thought of all the other things that you're saying yeah, there's a lot more information about it online, but some of us went down that rabbit hole so we mentioned it a lot in the scroll and stuff like that, where you know fake ass pandas, if you ever see that in the scroll, that's what that's about fake ass pandas.
Mark McGrath:Well, I you know. It's funny like they always every time a new panda was born, I remember as a kid on the news it was like a national event, like the national zoo.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:There's a panda, like it's crazy huh yeah, and if you don't do what china says, they'll take your pandas away. So that happens too.
Ponch Rivera:They use pandas as bargaining chips. We're going to put a panda emoji on our sub stack page now.
Mark McGrath:I don't know if I could do the panda rabbit hole. I've gone down so many rabbit holes. The Kennedy assassination is probably my deepest hole I've gone down I wanted to bring you back to. If you look at your sub stack, I think your top article is a meme drop, but the title is what I wanted to talk about. You say news is trauma-based mind control.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Yeah, absolutely. If you're even watching the news, everything that's coming through, that, for the most part, is coming from a fear space. And even if, like, let's say, let's say you're a survivalist, let's say you're a prepper, and you're looking at things in terms of, like I want to be safe, I want to accrue all of this stuff so that I know I will be safe, if you don't connect some sort of emotional attachment to what you're doing, you won't manifest it. You'll just end up having too much food. You know, should the thing not happen because you didn't manifest it right, which is not a bad problem to have Like, I have a little bit too much food, it's going to go bad. Let's have everybody over and we'll cook it. Right. Who cares? Right? Like that's a great opportunity to get everybody together. So, like, over and we'll cook it. Who cares? That's a great opportunity to get everybody together.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:So there are positive manifestations of this too, where it's like I'm doing this to be responsible. I'm not doing this because I'm begging it on, but the way that the news presents information. It's to affect the aggregate consciousness, to make the people trust the information that's coming from the explicate instead of what they understand and the implicate. So if you are getting all of your information that way, you could be told anything. Now look at recently what happened as soon as the election ended and people's entire behaviors and outlooks changed without anything actually really happening. Nothing really happened. Nothing tangible happened really happening. Nothing really happened. Nothing tangible happened. But yeah, everyone's demeanor changed just from the information that something had changed. And when you look at it that way, you realize how much power the media really has, because they could tell you anything.
Mark McGrath:You would believe it had changed just the demeanor of everyone around you mean like 50 of the country wanted to kill themselves and 50 of the country wanted to celebrate just based off of the outcome of the election, what they were told?
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:and they could be told anything yeah and it didn't matter. Nothing tangible has happened yet you know there's no like, other than you know fantasy football, choosing of the of the cabinet. Like nothing's happened, like that's it you know, yeah, well, when?
Mark McGrath:well, when you mentioned football too, though, it seems like something tangible could happen, and people are more concerned about bread and circuses, you know, they're more concerned about like hey, who won the game last night, you know I remember when and it's the same with the cabinet that's how they were acting about the cabinet.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:It was all fantasy football, do you remember?
Mark McGrath:maybe about what is it now? It was like when Snowden came out Edward Snowden, uh-huh. Was it maybe like 10 years ago now, who knows? But he was saying, like your Samsung is spying on you and all your devices are spying on you. And people are like, oh yeah, that's amazing, like hey, who won the game last night? You know, like people are so, as you say, it's like they're um, they're so distracted from reality and and they will fall for. They will fall for anything, and the first thing they do when something quote-unquote happens is to tune into the news as if, yeah, they're awaiting instructions or something yeah, and they expect that they're going to get it that way.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:But if you pressed on them when all of that was happening especially like when you, when you had the vault 7 um drop that came out from from wikileaks that detailed all of that, not just the stuff that came from snowden, but across the board if you pushed them on that, they would say, well, I don't care, I have nothing to hide, that's yeah, right, that's yeah the point.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:You know it shouldn't be happening. When it first happened and I saw that I I before I could get like a camera cover on my phone, I actually like tied something across the camera, like waiting for the camera cover to come in, because I was like I'm not having this happen, that's ridiculous and then you see, like all these things of like you know um disclosing that, like you know, zuckerberg has like tape over his camera and things like that.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:So so you know it's it's obvious that people think that way that the high level tech execs don't let their kids have cell phones and things like smartphones. They keep them away from it. So what do they know that we don't?
Mark McGrath:right, yeah, that's a. I mean that's, that's certainly worth pondering. But then it's like, well, I guess I guess people would counter and say, well, how do I keep in touch? Then, Like, how do I quote, unquote, know what's going on, or how do I function? I mean, how do I pick up a kid from basketball practice? You know, like, how do I arrange for something without the device, without the phone?
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:You know we used to do that ahead of time.
Mark McGrath:Yeah, we used to play.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Yeah, yeah, and have answering machines and leave a quick message on somebody's answering machine or reverse the call from a pay phone.
Ponch Rivera:Yeah.
Mark McGrath:I can't imagine. I've tried to explain to children about what it was like to rearrange something across time zones, to meet somebody at Mardi Gras at a certain time who had missed their, their flight. But there's no way I would have known that they'd missed their flight. So I had to collect, call my mother to ask why somebody missed their flight. And you know, and like the thought of that today it's impossible because you would just do it all over, all over text. Yeah, absolutely, but we do talk about this all the time. It's the medium, is the message. You know, that's, that's what andrew mccluhan's uh, grandfather, marsha mccluhan, andrew's been on our show and the medium does become the message. In our environment, our technology shape us as as humans and our shape our perceptions and other things that our ability to that sort of you know, rapid information whether it's good or bad, I mean it's still having a deep impact on how we, um, uh, how you know, how we sense, make yeah, and, and he also predicted that the meme war would occur.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:you know, he thought that world war three would be fought with, you know, with ideas, with pictures, with things like this, and it was true.
Mark McGrath:So you know, he was passionate about that too. Did you read tomorrow's?
Ponch Rivera:Substack that's getting released?
Mark McGrath:No, no, well, by the time this gets published, it'll already be out there. But the guerrilla information war, to your point, Marshall McLuhan said in 1968 that World War III is not, will be, he said is a guerrilla information war with both civilian and military participants. And we had a live broadcast last week with John Robb and with Michael Gameron talking about this exactly, and that's what tomorrow's article is about. But everybody's in it, whether you like it or not, and everybody needs to understand it, whether you like it or not. Now to your point what Potts was saying, it's lower energy to just say well, I'm just going to hit the button. I don't want to challenge my assumptions, I don't want to have to break and revise my models and Demi, you said something earlier about, nobody wants to shatter their foundations and revise, but that's exactly what John Boyd was telling us to do.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:That's what you have to do. You have to do it. That's the world of reorientation. You know, yeah, and there's no way out without it. Yeah, exactly, there's no way out, absolutely no growth without it. And and if you're not willing to do that, if you're not willing to relearn, you can't, you can't get anywhere, you're, you're just going to keep spinning your wheels I'll send you our train so we put out a transcript of conceptual spiral.
Mark McGrath:But that's where we get the the, the title for both the subsect and for the podcast. And it's this one paragraph where Boyd had been talking about all the things like numerical imprecision, quantum uncertainty, all these things, and he said because of those, there's no way out of the world of reorientation. In other words, if you're not constantly challenging assumptions, you're not constantly breaking and revising and updating your models, you're going to be absolutely hosed, you know, and you'll be irrelevant, you'll be obsolete, you'll be extinct.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Yeah, and and also, just even on a personal level, you just can't get anywhere. If you, if you keep things with your basic assumptions and you're not growing, you're not taking in any new information, you're not challenging anything that you already know. There's no way right you just, you just can't, and and it's hard to even fathom is you know, like um, you're supposed to learn, unlearn, relearn, right, so that's when you hear these people say the science is settled no, that's not science
Ponch Rivera:no, that's a different concept, that's, you know, some offshoot of religion there, that's not science.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:No, that's not science. That's a different concept. That's, you know, some offshoot of religion there. That is not science. That's take everything on a faith-based level and you know, and at the point where it's not actually something that is faith-based, it becomes cultish. You know it's not, that's a cult.
Mark McGrath:Yeah, you're right. Occult yeah, you're right, it does become like the. There is a religious or sacramental aspect to a lot of these things that you know. The science is settled, that becomes like a mantra. Yeah, I was thinking of one the other day that I hear people say all the time and it escaped my mind because you keep there's certain phrases like if you're going to homeschool children, people say what about socialization? They have these reflexive things that have been programmed into their head but they don't understand why they're saying it. They don't understand how it got in there in the first place. Yeah, and to that, are the children who are in public school really all that socialized? They they're, they're being indoctrinated. Do you remember when ron paul was running for president? So I remember when ron paul was running for president and people would say I love him on the constitution, but he's a kook on foreign policy, like and like. You'd hear it over and, over and over again. Everybody was saying the same exact thing, almost like choreographed because it was fed down.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Yeah, someone had dropped that. You know they drop these little um sound bites into the zeitgeist and they perpetuate and it becomes part of like an operation mockingbird tactic so when you start to hear those repetitive things like libertarianism, who will build the roads like that's another one of them? Yeah, yeah yeah, so you know anytime you hear like something that's being dropped of them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you know anytime you hear like something that's being dropped down.
Ponch Rivera:You need to pay your fair share.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Yeah, yeah, different things like that.
Ponch Rivera:What does that mean? Let's go get a pizza together and we'll figure out what fair share is. All right.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Or to even think that there's scarcity, that there's not enough to where you have to split it up like a pie.
Ponch Rivera:Yeah, and you know from Mark's background in economics, and mine as well, as you know, it's a growing pie, right, that's what we want. It's not a fixed thing A lot of folks think it is fixed.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:You're like, well, if it is, then that's not really smart, but even like you know, when you have like false built scarcity models like De Beers and Diamonds yeah, like de Beers and diamonds. Yeah, like when you look at it that way you have like a you know a falsely built scarcity model that that drives up the price of something when you know diamonds are are a dime a dozen in Africa. You know, actually in the mines like they're, they're falsely inflated.
Mark McGrath:Yeah.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:And now you can make them like synthetically, and they're they're even better, right. And then even the whole thing surrounding that like setting the prices. What did they say? It was like two months of your salary or something like that. So they set an expectation of price so that people would buy ones that were that expensive, and if you didn't, there was a social stigma attached to it, so they would ensure that you would do that.
Mark McGrath:Did you ever read Propaganda by Edward Bernays? Uh-huh, yeah, I mean, that's where bacon and eggs comes from, right? Yeah, you think these things that are. They're natural. There's nothing natural about eating bacon and eggs together Nothing.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:And adding an egg to the boxed cake batter, because the women felt like they weren't doing anything otherwise. Yeah, they couldn't sell it unless you actually had to add something to it to make it. So they had powdered egg in it to begin with and nobody would buy it. And it's like just add an egg and then they would buy it. That's funny.
Mark McGrath:you say that I just made brownies with a 12-year-old the other day. You know, have you ever seen a woman smoke a cigarette? That was yeah, the same thing that he did. That's Edward Bernays.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Mm-hmm, yeah, with the, what was it?
Mark McGrath:Torches of Freedom.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Torches of Freedom.
Mark McGrath:That's it At the Easter Parade in Manhattan.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Yeah, yeah, torches of freedom, and they all took the packs out of their garter belt.
Mark McGrath:Yeah.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:And started smoking like all at once.
Mark McGrath:And he was tapping into suffrage and like he was trying to you know and do all that.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:I mean just it's manipulative, but he and it was at the same time they were trying to push feminism right.
Mark McGrath:Right, yeah, so like if they could push feminism.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:They could get you know both people out of the house and into the workforce. They could tax two incomes and they would have you know, by necessity, control over your kids, because then they could indoctrinate them. So all of this connected.
Mark McGrath:Yeah, and it wasn't long after, you know, I guess 1913, you had the Federal Reserve Act, you had the direct election of senators and you had the income tax.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Yeah, all together.
Mark McGrath:All connected, all connected, all connected. Direct election of senators. And you had, uh, the income tax.
Ponch Rivera:yeah, all together all connected connected it is the strategic game percent.
Mark McGrath:Yeah, the strategic game is one of interaction and isolation, and the more that we interact, hopefully, the less that we're isolated. What do you, where do you think about? Um psychedelics?
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:I. I think that they should be used to change the way that the synaptic pathways connect together, because they open us up to the different ways that we were supposed to be. We came up evolutionarily with those in different places. Now, like if you know a lot about your genes, there are certain ones that will connect with you better than others.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:So if you, you know, if you're south america like going down to south america and having ayahuasca when it didn't come up with your specific gene set, you know, maybe that's not the best choice for you, but maybe a different one is, you know, like, if you're russian, maybe you, you should be like moving toward amanita, muscaria or something like that, because it came up with your genes. Or, or, you know, if you're Middle Eastern, akasha instead of Ayahuasca, which would be, you know, similar, so Akasha and Roo. But it depends where you come from and what connection you have to those plants through your genetics. And if you're mixed, you can probably, you know, do whatever your body tolerates, because so many people are at this point, but navigating toward the ones that you came up with will probably be better for you.
Ponch Rivera:I had this thought. You know from my ancestors are from the Southwest Colorado, so not too far from where you find the toad right 5-MeO-DMT. So I'm not saying I've only done that once and I may do it again in the future, but I agree with you the genetics are going to determine what I believe, what's best for you, right?
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Not not some external thing that says, hey, you need to do ayahuas. If you've ever read this jeremy narby, the cosmic serpent he was a researcher who went down to the amazon and was talking to different ayahuasqueros about you know, the way that they form their plant medicine, and was taking notes talking to them, and he would ask them questions about you know how did you know to put these two separate plants together to make this would heal this? And they, they would invariably say, well, the plants told me. Now, what they don't want you to know is that Big Pharma goes down to the Amazon and gets those kinds of ideas from the ayahuasqueros and brings them back and tries to isolate the compounds that are within those plants so they can patent them. But those things are not figured out scientifically, they're figured out through consciousness, because the ayahuasqueros will tell you, the plants told me. So they're not finding things scientifically, but they want the rest of the world to do everything on a scientific basis because it can be controlled.
Ponch Rivera:I have no idea how they came across the Colorado River Toad and chased down whatever was coming out of the back there and decided to smoke it troll. I have no idea how they came across the Colorado River toad and chased down the whatever was coming out of the back there and decided to smoke it.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Yeah, yeah, who knows, who knows? But the frog told me, right, like that's invariably, that's what they're going to say, like the animal told me, the plants told me to chase down the frog, like whatever that was because that's their connection with the environment, like that's how they derive that information.
Mark McGrath:You keep using the word plants and animals. That's the other thing. These are plants, these are animals, these are here, these are created, these were.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:You know it's like again, they've been around forever, yeah, and they have consciousness too.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:So you know that's probably they're just tapping into the consciousness and in ancient ways that that westerners are not privy to, because we're not supposed to be, because we're easier to do that way, and you know that that's how they're figuring it out.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:But everyone that he asked they would say the same thing that he met an ayahuasquero who had, who was um, he could remember everything he saw, right, he, um, he had photographic memory and he came out of um ayahuasquero trips and trips, rather, he would paint what he saw. And he had some of these paintings and he brought them back with him and a biologist friend took a look at them and what he was painting was like, you know, cells and like different, like mitochondrial structures and things that that this biologist was recognizing, and he's like this is wild. Who did this? You know he told him, you know this ayahuasquero who had, you know, photographic memory that was coming back from his ayahuasquero trips, or ayahuasca trips rather, keep tripping up that word Ayahuasca trips and painting what he saw science, the free energy principle and active inference, things like that.
Ponch Rivera:He recently wrote a new spin on the stoned ape hypothesis, which Terence McKenna came up with. The stoned ape hypothesis basically, you know the how our brains evolved. But these are real. I mean not real. These are researchers, neuroscientists, looking at this and always revisiting things that have been in the woo world again and saying, hey, yeah, this, this may have happened. We learned that puff puffer is it puffer fish?
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:I know dolphins do something with puffer fish or something like that, or ask them they puff puff, pass the puffer fish and get high off of them yeah, so dolphins, a dolphins get high off the puffer fish yeah, yeah, how about that?
Mark McGrath:yeah, they do. How about that? Well, I mean, it's just again. There's so many things that are, they guess when you say plants and animals too. The other word I was just forgetting was natural. Things are natural, right, it's not. It's not synthetic, it's not produced, it's not processed. These things are natural yeah to us.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:When we eat a puffer fish, like they have to take the venom out because it's too much for us, but for a that's enough to get them high. Hmm, big dolphins. That's why it kills us.
Mark McGrath:I don't know where we go from here.
Ponch Rivera:No.
Mark McGrath:I think what I've taken away is that John Boyd's OODA loop sketch is critical and the more that we orient and learn and the more that we come in to do information and we are aware of our genetic heritage I hadn't thought of the psychedelic aspect of the genetics, so I really appreciate you bringing that up, sure, and remembering that this implicitly guides and controls or shapes how we make sense in the world. We should be looking at the quote unquote woo stuff in addition to the quote unquote non-woo stuff.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Yeah, pairing it up.
Ponch Rivera:So, going back earlier in the conversation, we talked about manifestation. You know that that orientation helps us see what we. We only see what we expect to see. So there's a connection here that I want to bring up Intent, identity and intelligence. We change who we are throughout the day, so we have to go through some type of ceremony before we enter into meditation, before we enter into using psychedelics or any other type of medicine. You set that intentionality up front and you also have the environment. I'm going and you set that intentionality up front and you also have the environment. Hopefully I get these right. You get, the setting is the environment and the set is up here, right? If I'm getting that right, the set is internal to you and the setting is external to you. So all of these do connect and I think that's what I heard earlier in the conversation. Is they're not independent, right? It's a collaborative effort to try to reach a higher level of consciousness. Demi, can you? Am I off on all any of this?
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:No, that that sounds correct to me. So you know, if you're, and, and if you're using the ones that you came up with too, it's going to have, like, a better effect upon your body than it is otherwise. But if, if you're, if you're not, I mean it's still going to have an effect. You're still going to, but you won't be, you won't be close to what it's bringing in right? So, like um, if you talk to ayahuasqueros about, like, when you do ayahuasca and you're, you're connecting to aya, you're connecting to, you know um, a goddess who's coming in and and showing you different things that you're seeing, you're connecting to an entity.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:At that point, If your background is not connected to that entity, that could be a problem If you're not doing it right and you're not doing it, knowing what to do and how to honor that energy, all energy is connected. All of that is archetypes, but if you're not honoring that archetype correctly, you could be doing damage. It's different things like that that you have to consider that if we're detached from the ancestral information, according to that, we could be doing it wrong and we could be exposing ourselves to things that we shouldn't in that way because we're not doing it correctly wow, well, well, I think that I mean.
Mark McGrath:I think the takeaway is everybody should be challenging all assumptions and ruling nothing out, because the truth is there. I guess we're back right where we started the truth, the truth is out there.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Yeah.
Mark McGrath:Yeah, yeah, being here in New York and then, you know, over in New Jersey occasionally with the drones recently. You know I'm still not satisfied with the answers on that, but it's just another reminder. You know, the truth is out there.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Well, when the drones take the day off at the same time as the government, you kind of know what's going on.
Mark McGrath:I hadn't thought of that. What else? Ok, so where should we? Of course we'll send people to the starfire codes. What would they, what? What else would you have us look at send? That's where everything is. Yeah, that's where everything's at the starfire codes starfirecodescom.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:there's. There's a link to my link tree. That's in there. There's the table of contents, all the different information. We have daily readings in there, uh, that are, um, a combination of different types of divination. So it's, you know, tarot, runes, shufflemancy, meditation, all kinds of different stuff, and that's every day at 6am that'll come out, and I have meme drops that come out four days a week at 8am and those run the gamut. They're all different kinds of topics, whatever I'm exploring at that point. And then we've got a list of what I'm reading, what I've read that week, so I'll put that out on Sundays. On Fridays, I put out a list of things that I've watched over the course of a week. So just different YouTube videos and things like that that I thought would be interesting to share with everyone.
Mark McGrath:And on Saturdays do you get those from people, or how do you how from people, or how do you do those?
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Everywhere. I just collect them constantly and then I try to batch them together in different subject matter, but not always.
Mark McGrath:Do you have people doing meme reconnaissance for you?
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:No, I spend a lot of time doing that anyway, like I said, I'm still on Facebook. Most of people I know on facebook are are meme people, like the people that I know in general are mean people. So I'm just, I'm seeing them anyway and just grabbing them and socking them away a lot of the time. Or, you know, like any of the spaces that that I go to, people are putting them off, you know, and sharing them like in in big drops too. So, um, you know, just, uh, just trying to get the word out about different things, is this, like any topic that I'm looking into, wherever they cover something, they're going to have memes that are surrounding those topics as well. Like, people understand that that's the way about it, that, like, that's the quickest way to get information to people that they, you know, haven't taken in otherwise.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:You know, if they get it in these bite-sized modes, they're they're able to, uh, to ingest that and, and especially if it's funny, it'll, um, it'll break the ice John Robb calls it packetized media. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And and it's a way to you know, break down the walls there too especially. It's funny, the best ones, the best ones will, will, uh, will make you laugh and and get concepts in there that you didn't even know you were, you were acquiring because you were laughing too hard to figure it out. That's the best way.
Mark McGrath:Oh yeah, I mean, it's where I go to get my memes. There's no, yeah, yeah, there's no.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:There's no competitors in that department and then for the scroll, like I compile conversations that that everyone's had across notes for, you know, a certain amount of time, you know, and I do them a few weeks ahead, so it'll, it'll be interesting and I kind of, you know, group them together under different topic headings, but it might be like a multitude of posts that are going under the same heading or it's just like the conversational flow from a single post. But I put them up that way and it's a cross of um of humor and of topics like this that that might be a bit heavier, but you know, we we sort of cross those two um streams together and and get people laughing while they're taking in the other information too.
Mark McGrath:Well, so now I have to ask this question. Evil doesn't like to be mocked right, I was told. An exorcist told me this years ago the devil hates to be mocked right.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:But loves to mock.
Mark McGrath:What's that? But loves to mock.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Explain to mock. What's that? But loves to mock explain, uh, the you know anything evil will love to mock you for what you allow them to do.
Mark McGrath:That's right, but they hate to be mocked because there's power in mocking yeah, yeah there's power in humor yeah, there's. So we have up on the screen some of dimi's memes that she collects. Absolutely, just meant, absolutely meant. Yeah, you're right. So evil loves to mock, but hates to be mocked yeah you know, um, I think that's really where the power of the memes come in and why people it's always interesting to see who has an adverse reaction to them.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Yeah, because it's breaking down their, their, um, their barriers. It's always interesting to see who has an adverse reaction to them. Yeah, because it's breaking down their, their, um, their barriers it's it's changing their perspective.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:So when they have cognitive dissonance, it's because they're digging their heels in, because they don't want to have that information. Get in, they're not ready yet. And the way that you can kind of combat that with people if you're just like generally having conversations with them about stuff like this, let them lead the conversation. If they're coming to you with a specific topic that they want more information on, they want the truth on that topic. You know, if they're coming to you with Cincinnati, don't take them to Timbuktu, stay in.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Cincinnati. Figure out. You know what they're willing to to entertain as far as like the thing that they're already searching into, because their mind is wrapped around that and their mind is questioning that and as they go out from there they're going to find other things that they're questioning. But if you bring in something else they can't wrap their mind around, they're going to put the brakes on it, they're going to stop you and they're going to stop thinking about it, because it's like there's yeah it makes it hurt to think about.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:They're not there yet. They not ready. So just stay with them and follow their lead and give them more information about the things that they're specifically looking into and they'll find more. They'll go and hunt more and come back to you.
Mark McGrath:Yeah, it's like I have a discussion. A lot you know ask more questions and ask them questions rather than make presumptions, assumptions, statements yeah.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Or if they're asking you something specific, give them places to go. Look Right, Don't talk to them about it fully and explain to them. I've had hours and hours in front of this. It wouldn't be fair. And it's not fair for me to expect you to know all about it in five minutes to have this kind of a conversation. So I'm just going to give you some links.
Mark McGrath:So one thing that Punch, and I say all the time is you have to do the work, you have to do the work. So, like I mentioned earlier, like the Kennedy assassination rabbit hole, for example, I did all that work.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Right but.
Mark McGrath:I had to do that and I had to take the risk that actually it was the movie JFK when I was in high school. That's really where it kind of rattled me to the point where I had to go look deeper but like if, if, cause, cause, I would get the things I'm aware of or things I know and understand. To your point, people are looking for, like the just give me the pill or just give me, like the little, the answer, but so much of it. You know you have to actually yourself. You know, as you're saying, I mean you you have to do the digging, you have to do, otherwise you're not going to make the connections of like JFK conspiracy video or whatever that you wanted to watch.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:And I I've seen the Zapruda film so many times, so many times and and we were just all sitting there like, okay, it's JFK Friday, you know like, and he would like show us all this stuff. So I was exposed to it very young, like you know, in school, yeah, sitting here and like going after it on my own.
Mark McGrath:I remember so that came out I think 92. So I would have been like a sophomore in high school. Him over the years especially you know he was a Vietnam vet Like Platoon was basically his autobiographical experience of his time in Vietnam. I remember that was like the. That's one of the first things I ever remember that movie really forcing you or challenging you to say hey, there's other stories, there's other perspectives, or everything. You to say hey, there's other stories, there's other perspectives, or everything may not be as you, as you.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:And then you start digging and digging, and digging and it just opens up your mind to like a whole new yeah, he did that in such a great way too, because it's not like necessarily that you have to, you know, buy into one specific perspective.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:It was you know, but you should be questioning this because it doesn't have a minimum, yeah, yeah you should be, you know, looking into this, because the story that you're being told like isn't is a narrative, it's a story and it's not necessarily the same people that tell you the science is settled.
Mark McGrath:They're also the same people that tell you that bullets like stop in midair, take a break, then turn and then set up camp for the night yeah, right, oh man, this, this episode is gonna get flaggedged. We're all going to.
Ponch Rivera:Not for about three more years We'll be okay, yeah, yeah, all right.
Mark McGrath:Well, demi Pitchell of Starfire Coast, we really appreciate you coming, coming on, no Way Out and further the opening of Mines, and we encourage everybody to go to your site, starfire Codes, and subscribe and check it out, it's never boring.
Demi Pietchell of Starfire Codes:Thank you so much and it's an honor to have been here. No-transcript.
