Autism, Telepathy and New "Outside" Information with Dr. Julia Mossbridge

What if the key to unlocking human consciousness lies not in neurotypical experiences, but in the unique ways non-speaking autistic individuals perceive and interact with reality? In this captivating episode of No Way Out, host Brian "Ponch" Rivera welcomes cognitive neuroscientist, researcher, and spiritual seeker Julia Mossbridge, PhD, and special co-host Sarah Kernion, a mother of two non-speaking autistic children, for a profound exploration of awareness, precognition, and expanded human potential.

Dr. Mossbridge shares insights from her pioneering research on precognition, demonstrating how scientific studies reveal that human physiology can anticipate future random events before they occur. She introduces the "informational substrate"—a foundational layer of reality rooted in information rather than matter—that may underpin phenomena like telepathy and non-local consciousness. Drawing on the intelligence community's Stargate program on remote viewing, she explains how these abilities tap into a universal information field, challenging conventional notions of time and space.

Sarah Kernion offers heartfelt insights from raising her non-speaking autistic son and daughter, who exhibit remarkable abilities to process multiple streams of information simultaneously—such as absorbing podcasts, TV shows, and reading materials all at once—despite motor challenges, like difficulty opening a door. She recounts instances where her children demonstrated knowledge acquired through unexplained means, including apparent telepathic connections.  These observations align with Dr. Mossbridge's findings, and Kernion emphasizes how unconditional love and maternal intuition nurture their growth. 

Julia Mossbridge, PhD

Stimson Center

Sarah Kernion

Helios Rising 

The Telepathy Tapes

NWO Intro with Boyd

Flow Learning Lab

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Chapters

• 0:00 Outside Information and the OODA Loop
• 4:25 Introduction of Co-Host and Guest
• 6:51 Exploring Precognition and Telepathy
• 11:54 Intelligence Community and Remote Viewing
• 18:26 The Nature of Consciousness and Information
• 20:56 The Telepathy Tapes and Learning from Non-Speakers
• 23:26 Understanding Non-Speaking Autism Experience
• 33:25 Consciousness, Boundaries, and Information
• 46:50 Movement, Joy, and Cultural Acceptance
• 57:13 UAPs, Non-Human Intelligence and Reality
• 1:05:26 Unconditional Love

Transcript

Brian "Ponch" Rivera: 0:57

All right, hey, no Way Out. Listeners, it's Ponch Rivera. I have a special co-host today and a special guest. I'll introduce them to you here in a moment and before I do that I want to share a couple of thoughts with you on the OODA loop that Mark and I have been having over the last few weeks. Basic sketch there we got the OODA loop on the left side, or observation on the left side.

Brian "Ponch" Rivera: 1:15

Observations really represent our sensory organs. Generally, when you think about sensory organs, we have five senses. We know that on Wall Street, the number one sensory capability is interoceptive skills. We get that from John Coates and some research from many years ago. But that's what observation represents there our sensory organs and their connection to the external world.

Brian "Ponch" Rivera: 1:38

Now, what's surprising about the OODA loop that we don't hear a lot of people talk about? That is these three things over here unfolding interaction with the environment, unfolding circumstances and something special that we call outside information. Now let me give you my take on this. Unfolding interaction with the environment is really just our observations or actions, so it's things that perturb the environment to get feedback from it. So think about developing a new product for a customer, developing a strategy. That type of thing is what we're doing there when we have that unfolding interaction with the environment. Now we have competing OODA loops out there. There are other living systems that have an OODA loop as well. They're engaging with the environment, they're trying to influence the environment as well, and that's what unfolding circumstances is Now. There's three sources of information in the OODA loop coming in from the left side. The third one is outside information.

Brian "Ponch" Rivera: 2:29

Some of you know that we've been talking a lot about psychedelic assist therapy on here. We have some connections to neuroscience and consciousness. We'll talk to folks about the Akashic records. We'll look at things from a flow perspective as to why do we create novelty. How do we create that creativity inside our systems or inside our bodies? So the idea is really simple Habits of mind. If you build those capabilities up, you get into a pattern, you gain greater access to novelty, which could be coming from outside information.

Brian "Ponch" Rivera: 3:04

If any of you read Andrew Gallimore's latest book on DMT, he's saying that there's a connection to an external world that actually controls us, and that control idea that John Boyd picked up on comes from the Toyota production system. Control is outside and bottom up. So I'm going to pause there and I'm going to stop sharing screen, but I just wanted to set that context for today's conversation. Now, what I'd like to do is talk about something that is pretty unique over the last year, and that is the number one podcast earlier this year was the telepathy tapes, and that's actually how Sarah and I started talking about this. I'll introduce Sarah Kearney in here. Sarah is the she's the InStone podcast producer and host, and I have her webpage up as well. And, sarah, can you introduce yourself a little bit and tell us about your background and what you're doing.

Sarah Kernion: 3:52

Absolutely.

Sarah Kernion: 3:53

Thanks for having me here as a co-host, and it's so wonderful to be able to speak my lived experience as boldly and as bigly as I can.

Sarah Kernion: 4:01

I am a mother of three beautiful and healthy children, and my younger two both have profound non-speaking autism.

Sarah Kernion: 4:08

And as a 29-year-old new mother on the Upper West Side in New York, let me just tell you that having children with profound special needs, specifically non-speaking autism, was not on my bingo card right One, let alone two, and they are a boy and a girl, and they're spaced two and a half years apart. And in believing as a mother always, I have a typical developing older child as well, knowing since day one of motherhood that my goal was to be their leader, to become the best and most independent versions of themselves, whatever that looked like, was always the number one goal. And in receiving a diagnosis for my daughter, millie, around seven years ago and then having her brother follow with the similar diagnoses, it has been my charge in life to listen in ways that the world does not acknowledge in order to continue to do that. And so neurodiversity and every aspect of it has become my mission, and living it day in and day out is no better experiment to run, because they are of me.

Brian "Ponch" Rivera: 5:10

And just so our listeners know, in a few weeks time Sarah and I will be participating in a destruction and creation event down at Montgomery Alabama. Our university X is actually putting that together for us. We'll be down there to talk about some of the things you may hear on this podcast as well, and we may even talk about sacred geometry and why that's included inside the Chinese doctrine. We don't know where that conversation will go and we don't know where today's conversation will go. I want to give you some more context. So Sarah and I connected on the telepathy tapes a while ago, I think it was. We were driving separately across the country. I was texting her and Mark, the co-host here, and I said hey, have you guys checked this out? And then I realized something very close to me, and that is I'm just going to share a screen with you. I'm just going to share a screen with you.

Brian "Ponch" Rivera: 6:00

Neighbor, my nearest neighbor, right next door, they have a I believe she's 19-year-old, avani, and I've talked to Maria and you can learn more about Maria here on Helios Rising. This just came out in the last few weeks. But having listened to the telepathy tapes and having spent time talking to Sarah about what she lives every day and having time spent with Maria talking about what's happening next door, it's absolutely fantastic. I think there's an amazing connection that needs to be shared and explored, as well as looking at consciousness, looking at time, looking at love, looking at oneness, looking at the Akashic Records, whatever it may be, but there is a strong connection between what John Boyd was trying to do and understanding the nature of creativity and how living systems learn, and some of the discussion you'll hear today.

Brian "Ponch" Rivera: 6:47

So, without further ado, I'd like to introduce our guest today. That's Dr Julia Mossbridge. I was put in contact with her by a previous guest, dr David Bray, who was on the show. He said you need to talk to Dr Mossbridge and I asked Sarah to join me today on this call. So, dr Mossbridge, can you give us a little background and maybe some critique of what I said and shared and what we shared in the last few minutes?

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 7:09

Well, first I just want to say I didn't realize that David Bray was the one who recommended me. That makes me feel really good. Right now David is testifying in front of congress about ai national ai strategy, so that makes me feel pretty special. He's a pretty cool guy. Critique about anything that you just said? Well, first of all, sarah, I have no critique. I have just admiration and um wonder about what it must have been like for you, especially in those circles.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 7:42

I grew up in the Midwest and it's a different sort of culture. But on the East Coast, especially in New York, especially in the fancy places, I hear that it's a lot about appearances, it's a lot about social family BS. Sorry, I wasn't in that world, so I call, call it. Yes, I think this would be incredibly revelatory and grounding and scary and difficult and there must have been a lot of suffering and change and growth. And anyway, it's just your story about that experience. I think I hope that you get it out there in a book or in some kind of way so that people can other people who are going through similar life changes can really learn from it.

Sarah Kernion: 8:24

Thank you.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 8:25

Yeah, so no critique there, just like I am not worthy. You're awesome, thank you yeah.

Sarah Kernion: 8:32

And sorry, please, sorry, no, it's it. There is something about a deep inner knowing and calling when you experience it as a mother and then you experience it again a second time and the overlap of that, and then they're actually they're not twins. So the ability to get very quiet within those senses as a mother and maternal intuition was very strong, was very strong, and I knew that that was a gift that I had and had to use my gifts to get that message out in a way that was in the vein of staying curious.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 9:15

Well, yes, and there must have. I mean, that's where you got. But I feel like, culturally, we tend not to talk about the work that it took to get there. I think what's super interesting is the work that it must have taken to get there. Yes, anne, I'm sure. Yeah, I'm sure it wasn't like. Now I'll use my gift sentence.

Sarah Kernion: 9:37

Not a problem. I was raised by a father who's a physicist, so there was a lot of questioning. There we go, yes. So yes, you're absolutely right, it was not an overnight unmasking or unveiling of this mindset. It was sitting in the deep discomfort of what the suffering and the realization was teaching me and yet, at the time, having to move forward and keep moving, which was so important to me from day one, Of course, as you're running a marathon, it doesn't really work to be like.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 10:11

I think I'll take like a week break, Exactly.

Sarah Kernion: 10:13

That's not afforded to us, unfortunately, yeah.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 10:16

Yeah, that's really cool. And about Ponch, what you were saying earlier about OODA Loop, you know I'm familiar reaction to Oda Loop. So I'm just going to be very clear. It's like, and I feel like this is a reaction that sorry I'm going to back up and give a preamble I feel like my reaction to it because my background's in cognitive neuroscience and I was raised up in a world of you know, how do we think about how the mind works?

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 10:57

How do we think about this perception, action, loop, how do we understand all the beliefs and things on the edge that influence perception, action and cognition? That's sort of been where my mind has been at since I was a kid, right. So how do we understand this? People are really mysterious. There's all sorts of the brain and the mind are different things. And how does the brain create the mind? How does the mind influence the brain? And so when I started hearing about OODA loop, I'm like this is like psychology 101. Like why is the intelligence community so obsessed with something that is so remedial? I mean, it's just like, of course, of course this is true.

Brian "Ponch" Rivera: 11:33

I'm going to say something here. Because they are interested in something so remedial, because they follow the remedial OODA loop. They don't follow the real one. They're following one that is observe, orient, decide, act, and that's not what it is.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 11:45

No, I agree. I loved when you brought in the richness of what's actually going on. That's closer to what the brain is doing. It's closer to how we really process, but it's still like one-on-one. It's still like guys. We've known this for like 100 years. Could we move past it?

Brian "Ponch" Rivera: 12:02

like 100 years, like can we move past it? No, we can't move past it. Well, I think this is a major blocker, and why we have this show is folks don't understand how living systems interact with their environment. Right, if you in our view it's really simple. If you understand that, you reduce the energy requirement to navigate this uncertain world. Right, you're open to challenging assumptions, you can do red teaming techniques, you can understand flow states, you can actually build an organization that thrives only if you spend the time to understand the basics of psychology, a little bit of neuroscience, physics, you know, maybe some Sun Tzu in there.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 12:31

And it's not even that hard to do. That that's the thing. No, it's not Right, right I?

Brian "Ponch" Rivera: 12:34

agree, yeah, and that's why we have. You know, you were like when we were talking the last few weeks hey, ponch, I don't know anything about the OODA loop. You don't need to know anything about the OODA loop to come on the show or to have a discussion about it. If you understand your domain, a domain or many domains, I guarantee you there's going to be some convergence, maybe some coherence, in there.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 12:52

So, yeah, I want to know some more of your background. Yeah.

Brian "Ponch" Rivera: 12:55

We talked about the telepathy tapes. We understand a little bit about your work in that, but can you give us some more background on who you are, how you got to talking about precognition, talking about time, that woo stuff that people push back on all the time? Can you give us more background on that?

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 13:10

The woo stuff that actually is the foundation of the interloop, if you're into that 100%. Yeah, sure, it's funny because when I saw you put, I saw you put outside information. You and I had had a conversation earlier about like no, that's inside information. It's just that we are oriented towards thinking we are this conscious part of the that, that's the bulk of who we are. Is this deliberative rational thing? And it's like, well, yes, false so yeah so I got really.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 13:39

Since I was a kid, I've been an experiencer of mystical states and precognition and telepathy as well. But precognition varies strongly, and so precognition is the ability to predict future events that you should not be able to predict according to your regular senses. You also should not. In order for it to be counted as precognition, you should not be able to predict it based on sort of unconscious information that's in your environment. You should not be able to predict it based on your planned activities. So let me just give you a couple examples. It's not precognition to say, well, I dreamed that I had a pastrami sandwich, so I went to the store and had a pastrami sandwich. That was precognition. It's like, well, no, not really. It's also not precognition to say, wow, I really had this feeling that it's going to rain, you know, and then it rained, but you were actually picking up like the smell in the air. You were picking up changes in air pressure. That's why precognition is one of my favorite things to test, because it's easy to test rigorously. You use a random number generator to produce a stimulus or something to show someone or have listened to in the future, and have it randomly selected, and you get information before the selection of the stimulus and you see how that information ties in with the stimulus. You have like 600 different images you could show people. Half of them are known to make people's blood pressure go up. Half of them are known to make people's blood pressure just neutral, like a picture of a gun pointed at you versus a picture of a sunset.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 15:22

We know and sort of my entrance into this field based on my own experience and then trying to do science around it. My entrance into this field was in 2012 when I published a meta-analysis from Northwestern, when I was at Northwestern, focusing on studies that had shown that your physiology predicts the future event that will be randomly selected in the future. In other words, your blood pressure goes up, for instance, before the gut. We see the picture of the gut pointed at you even before the random number generator chooses it. And in fact, Dan Brown's new book, Secret of Secrets, came out last week. In fact, Dan Brown's new book, Secret of Secrets, came out last week and the main character is a woman who studies precognition and non-local consciousness. So I don't mean to plug his book, but he did plug me in that book. Great, I'm not saying that's mean, but he did mention my name in that book no-transcript for a long time.

Brian "Ponch" Rivera: 16:28

Can you talk a little bit more about the, what the intelligence community has done with remote viewing. Is that part of precognition? And then maybe some of the things we've done in school. But I definitely want to bring it back to the the autism non-speakers as well because I believe there's something there that we we need to really explore and maybe connect back to. Well, it's all a through line.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 16:50

Yeah, it's all a through line. Yeah, it's all a through line in terms of our cultural waking up to the reality that consciousness is or I don't even want to say consciousness that information, that there's a non-local informational substrate from which we can draw. Let's call it that way and let me explain that way, and then I'll go into the Stargate stuff, which is the intelligence security stuff. So the emerging hypothesis that has been around actually for thousands of years among indigenous people and various spiritual traditions, but also is coming up now in philosophy and neuroscience and physics, is that everything is information. The foundation of everything is information. When I'm doing this, I'm sort of imagining like a dynamic blueprint that bubbles up into our reality, right?

Sarah Kernion: 17:34

That's exactly what I just thought of as well. Yeah, the OODA loop was that. That sketch was just this.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 17:40

Yeah, it's bubbling up, and so that hypothesis is very different from the current hypothesis that most scientists have been working on for the last couple hundred years, the current hypothesis that most scientists have been working on for the last couple hundred years, which is that what science does is deal with the only thing that's real, and the only thing that's real is this material world. But if you start to say what science does is actually try to understand the nature of the universe and the nature of the universe might not be all material. It might actually foundation there's evidence that it's foundationally information of some sort.

Sarah Kernion: 18:11

Can you repeat that again? That is so powerful. I don't know what I said, that science believes it's the material world.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 18:21

Yes, so the last couple hundred years the deal has been that scientists kind of I mean Descartes okay, let's go back to Descartes. Descartes says there's a spiritual or non-material world and there's a material world, the Cartesian split he's like I get it. There's something like our souls or something that's not material, and there's this material world. And science is going to go look at the material world. But the nature of science is more like a verb, it's more like a process. It's like we're trying, as scientists, to discover how the universe works. And if the universe doesn't work according to our assumption, which is that everything's material and that's the only thing that's real, then we better expand our idea so that we could look at non-material things. Because if that's how the universe works, that's what we're after, right? I think that's something like what I was saying. Yes, said yes, okay. So this idea of information being the substrate and some people call it consciousness, like sometimes I call it the pervasive, universal consciousness, or cosmic consciousness, or the or the collective unconscious, like these are all ideas that are related to this idea about information substrate, then you should be able to, for instance, I mean you should be able to do a lot of things more interesting than spy. But for the intelligence community you should be able to tap into the informational substrate and spy on what the informational substrate is that's bubbling up for Russia, for China, for Israel, right, and so that was a thought that occurred to the folks in the intelligence community, not exactly, like I said, because that's more of a modern hypothesis, but it draws on ancient roots. But in the late 70s and early 80s, cold War times, there was a belief that the Russians were using psychic spies to get information. So folks in the US who worked closely with the intelligence community said we've got do that too and we got to figure out how they're doing it so we can block it. And they created this program that had many names and the last name that it was killed under in 1995 was Stargate and that's the one it's known by. It had many other names and over time it went from CIA to Army, dia, back to CIA, to get killed in 95. And then it was declassified. So that's how we could talk about it openly. And there was actually a recent.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 20:37

So I'm going to start talking about the NSA exhibit in their museum, about the remote viewers. But they called this remote viewing because it was sort of like spying from a distance. Now, the interesting thing about the name is it doesn't really speak to what it really was, in my view, which is remote sensing in space and time. So it's not just viewing. You could sense emotions, you could sense sounds, et cetera, even tastes and smells. So remote sensing and it's remote, not just distance like what's going on in the Russian embassy in such and such a country right now, but it's distance in time.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 21:18

So what happened in the past, thousands of years ago, that we don't understand, or on this other planet, or what will happen in the future? So it contains precognition. It contains clairvoyance, so the ability to just get information directly from the informational substrate. It contains telepathy, so the ability to get information that is being thought by other people, including moods, motivations, ideas. It contains, I believe, the psychokinesis, the ability to influence things with your mind, and so it's a powerful, powerful thing, and it works better when a skilled practitioner is using it. It works very well.

Brian "Ponch" Rivera: 21:53

So I've got a couple of questions that are coming up to mind right now. One is is it possible that the documents we create, the artifacts we create, can provide some type of information to our future selves that we didn't see when we created that document, or another civilization did that, and I'll put a pin in that as well for a potato. And then the next question is or actually a comment, is the spying thing? What I learned from Maria next door is on the Hill. Autistic children were able to understand the origins of Helios Rising, Maria's company before she made it public through communication on the Hill. So that's fine thing. Quote, unquote spine. That is happening in the non-speakers, non-speaking autistic world as well. So two points there one, can we create artifacts? And then two, that connection to spine in the non-speaking world.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 22:44

Let's start with one. So we could. We are absolutely creating artifacts all the time, but we need to be careful, right? It's not so assuming that time is not the way we think about it, and since I was a kid because I've had really detailed precognitive visions and dreams I'm well aware that time doesn't work the way that we think it does or that we have been taught that it does. You might want to be careful, in terms of conservation of information, with leaving too many artifacts about what actually happened in the past, because if you can influence the past from the future, if you have already an artifact that says X happened, it might be harder to influence the past from the future. And the same thing about the future. We might need to be careful about the information we get about the future, because if you fully define this one space, it might be harder to make it different than it is. So there's an art to the fuzziness of information that allows you to.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 23:40

I believe. I believe there's an art to the fuzziness of information. I just believe this based on my own thinking and my own experience leading teams and training people in this area. There's something good about the fuzziness of information that allows things to be more malleable, unless you want things to work out exactly as they are seen or sensed, and I think we've seldom want to feel constrained to any particular outcome. I think the universe does an interesting thing where it helps control the information somehow that comes. I think the universe does an interesting thing where it helps control the information somehow that comes. I agreed with your friend who said that there's this control, like the information that comes to us is controlled, and it's not controlled by people. It's not controlled by like individual powerful cartel although we fantasize that it is because we can't imagine people being not in charge. It's controlled by the universe, the laws of the universe, and so I think that's important to think about.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 24:34

So then, okay, having said that, the reason I wanted to say that, before we talk about non-speakers, is because we have to be very careful when we talk, in the same sentence or breath or idea space, about what the intelligence community has done with remote viewing and about non-speakers, because immediately, it makes you start thinking well, maybe the intelligence community is going to be interested in having a bunch of non-speakers come, you know, be spies for them, and that could be great.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 25:01

It could be great for the careers of non-speakers who are really good at this, let's say it could be really good, but if it's not done ethically, if it's done in an exploitative way, which in the past it could have been, because there's so much shame and stigma around believing in these things. So when you wrap something like UFOs, psychic beliefs, with shame and stigma, it allows you to exploit people who do have those capacities in a non-public way. That's right. That's not okay. So my whole life mission in this space is we say these things out loud. We do not support any shame or stigma around them. The science supports that this is happening. S-t-f-u. If you think that you're going to put some stigma on top of this and control the space, because this information is coming out through science, through culture, through philosophy and let's get going with using it to make the world a better place rather than try to control people.

Sarah Kernion: 26:02

And believing in the lives that are experienced, of the families that are sharing.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 26:09

Yes, well, yeah, and the thing is we can also believe and we can also test. So we can actually do rigorous tests to you know, determine whether telepathy as measured by the scientific methods, can be revealed in these students, and we can also observe anecdotal reports of telepathy that make complete sense only if you believe telepathy has happened and make no sense if you don't believe telepathy has happened. So I mean, we can use all of our tools in science to understand it and we can use our tools as humans and I say we like beyond scientists, like everyone, as humans, and I say we like beyond scientists, like everyone. We ought to be using our tools as humans to say now, wait a minute, here are some people whose minds work very differently. I really don't understand how their minds work. That's really true. I don't. Also, I don't think anyone else does, but I certainly don't and what can we learn about this different way of using the mind? And how can we respect that and honor that and create a future for these students that is worthy of them and that is worthy of us? So that's what I want to say about the non-speakers.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 27:24

I'm working on something called, I'm working with the Telepathy Tapes folks to extend the curriculum and create a spelling curriculum.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 27:33

This is largely with people who know about this I'm just sort of helping lead it with my nonprofit but that they're really doing the work To create a spelling curriculum that is more than a spelling curriculum, so it helps.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 27:45

If you're not familiar with non-speakers, often they will be offered the chance to use a letter board to communicate and it takes a lot of time and attention for their communication partner who's holding the letter board to learn how to do it the right way. Because these students are largely apraxic. They can have OCD loops. They often have this capacity to shut off with their oculomotor system, so you have to reawaken the oculomotor system. So it's not just an example of like oh, here's a keyboard, go type the message. The brain is working very differently. All of those systems perception, action, cognition are probably different, right, and so creating a spelling approach that brings in more context about their special gifts, brings in unconditional love, brings in awareness of the future that is there for these students, is really important. So that's something that I just had to advertise and soon I will have a crowdfunding campaign for that method.

Brian "Ponch" Rivera: 28:47

I think we owe our listeners a little bit more time on this, because some of them may not be familiar with the telepathy tapes or what Sarah experiences every day. So I'll start and then I want you to build on that, sarah, if you don't mind. So what I've learned from our neighbors, maria in particular, where do you live?

Brian "Ponch" Rivera: 29:02

Punch. I live in Virginia Beach, virginia, my next door. Learned is the ability that Avani has to learn is absolutely insane. She understands sacred geometry Like she loves. That potentially how she learned in a classroom. She tuned into other classes that were going on around her because the way we treat and treated non-speaking autism has been. Looking at these folks I'm going to say it may be awful, but they're not really human. There's something wrong with them and that's the furthest.

Brian "Ponch" Rivera: 29:35

Well they're stupid. Yeah, and that's not true. I think it's the other way around we're stupid compared to what's going on over there. No doubt I do believe that, based on the conversations I've had with Sarah and Maria, is that you know, we get to experience this meat, suit this ability to you know, go around this environment. Chances are they don't have the same experience we do.

Brian "Ponch" Rivera: 29:57

I understand that it takes a lot of energy, so we talk about the OODA loop and the free energy principle. It takes a lot of energy to open a drawer, right the things that we find pretty simple, but it takes no energy to connect to things and learn. So their experiences are different than ours. Their day-to-day experiences, their orientation, the way I understand it is, Avani next door will jump on her swing set and she screams in joy. It sounds like she's screaming in joy, you know, but what I learned from Maria is, Brian, she hates that because she's doing that to get an orientation to what we have what's up, what's down, what's up, what's down and what's left, what's right and I'm like, oh my gosh, right. So, Sarah, can you build on that some more and tell us about and for our listeners that don't understand or don't have this experience. Can you build a little more context for this?

Sarah Kernion: 30:40

Sure and I've. You know, ponch and I have shared. I've had direct conversations with Maria where our experiences and, given that her daughter is 10 years older than my oldest of the two, with non-speaking autism and apraxia, there's a lot of synergies that we found and specifically in the amount of information that is able to be taken in. I think there's a lot of talk in the neurodiversity world of these executive dysfunctions around hyperfixation and monotropism, and what I've found that is challenged with those of us that stay sort of curious to this is it's actually beyond monotropism and what I've found that is challenged with those of us that stay sort of curious to this is it's actually beyond monotropism, it's the ability to be monotrope on a X, y and Z axis all at the same time. Maria has shared with me that her daughter Can you define monotropism for people?

Sarah Kernion: 31:24

The ability to only focus on one thing at a time and that we live in a society that is based on multitasking being imperative, and when you have children that have hyper fixation or monotropism and experiencing them as they learn, what I have seen firsthand is that they are able to focus on many things all at once in such a capacity. That seems like a lot of noise to a typical human Right.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 31:52

It just looks like monotropism here, because all we're caring about is what we can see.

Sarah Kernion: 31:58

So Maria has shared with me this and I've experienced this with both of my children that her daughter is able to listen to a podcast on some sort of information, she's able to watch Family Feud and enjoy herself, and she's also reading a periodical. Maria has shared with me that that is the calming essence of Ivana's experience is this massive input of a lot of information, yet she can barely open the refrigerator door. And that is exactly what I experienced as well is that my daughter, specifically, can listen to Daniel Tiger in a variety of languages, have her set of letters on the side, have her device, her app, her AAC, and have a live football game on which she finds fascinating for hours. Experience that I see while I share and find others in similar situations becomes a pattern and you can't unsee it when you experience it, and it is different for every child. My son does it in the same way, but his inputs are different.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 33:04

So I have just started to get to know some of these students through a different Maria, maria Welch, who has been interviewed on the top of the tapes in Chicago and she has told me about her experiences, and also I've sat with these students and now feel much closer to many of them. So I don't know as much as people who have been in the field forever or for as much as even a single parent who has a single child, you know, or as a parent like you who has two children in this space, but what I strongly, it's so apparent to me, just the best explanation for what's going on is they're not in the OODA loop. The OODA loop describes sort of how we break down our decisions based on conscious deliberation. It's all left hemisphere stuff. Now the deal is our left hemisphere or I don't want to call it our left hemisphere because that's not really anatomically correct but that kind of thinking, that kind of system two deliberative, what we call rational thinking is created and informed by and controlled by non-deliberative, intuitive, unconscious processing. 90% of what our brain is doing is that, and maybe 10%, probably more like 2%, is that other stuff. And so the OODA loop is true, it's a story. It's a true story about how we think, about what our conscious mind is doing, but it's false in that what underlies it is all this unconscious parallel processing, like incredible supercomputer stuff that goes on that we're not aware of. And for autistic non-speakers let's just say non-speakers in general, because I think it extends to people who have had strokes and are now become non-speakers this starts to happen or have difficulty speaking and have apraxia.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 35:04

The consciousness or the udalic part that does the thinking or that whatever is like, really experienced as the tip of the iceberg and sort of the other, whereas the I, the self, is now located in that, what we would normally call the unconscious part, the 90% of the iceberg.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 35:22

And so when they're trying to get in their bodies, like going on a swing or like I'm obviously a speaker but since a kid, I can't function without moving, so I sit in a rocking chair, which is socially okay, but like when someone's trying to get themselves oriented to their body, it's a real thing, that consciousness, or the eye, the observer, is probably floating around in that unconscious space which doesn't exist. It's not a space-time thing, it's not a material thing, it's like hanging out in the informational substrate. So that's what I observe, and that's what they talk about telepathy takes too, about being difficult getting into your body. That's a real thing, like the I the self zipping around and you see, with these students they're trying to do a lesson and focus, you know, and write the answer to the question using the letterboard, but then the teacher will be like you know, I get that you're talking to your friends all the hell, but like I need you here now.

Sarah Kernion: 36:25

Yes, I mean, I've experienced that so many times in observing my son and daughter, both in their spell to communicate lessons that when they are able to be in their body to have their communication partner help them answer, when they do answer, I get the most direct eye contact from both of my children. Yes, because it's a confirmation like any typical child developing, which is mom do you see me? And that what you're describing is, again, interoception is a whole part of this that we need to dive into because it is real.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 37:04

Well, it's so real and the do you see me thing is so. I mean it's funny, because autism used to be diagnosed based on like why can't I contact Exactly, Can't do perspective taking, doesn't understand social modes or the cues? Trust me, With this group of people with non-speakers. I feel like they shouldn't need that. None of those things fit.

Sarah Kernion: 37:26

Zero. My children will look you directly in the eye and they have no discomfort with that.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 37:31

Well, they might make you feel uncomfortable. It makes you feel uncomfortable.

Sarah Kernion: 37:35

Yeah, but not them. My discomfort is mine to heal, not theirs, right?

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 37:41

Right. And so there's this spectrum of autism that people talk about low to high functioning, and it makes me want to barf, because high functioning means you're very left hemisphere, you're analytical, you could talk, that's a left hemisphere thing. You have a rational story about what you do, which is again a story. Therefore, you can do lots of high-paying jobs right, because culturally that's what we respect.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 38:09

Low functioning non-speaking can't move your body right, according to the rest of everybody, makes it hard to have those high-paying jobs because you're focused on a bunch of different things all at once, don't understand you and that's all saying it kindly. But I feel like we need to switch to more like a right hemisphere, left hemisphere or system one, system two model of autism where we say what do you what? Where are your gifts? So people who are non-speakers generally their gifts are in system one intuition, understanding emotional social connection, like they're better than most neurotypicals, and understanding emotional social connection, telepathy, precognition, ability to talk to dead people All these things are sort of going on, I believe, with the informational substrate in our unconscious minds, and our conscious minds get scared of them, implicit guidance and control.

Brian "Ponch" Rivera: 39:09

That is intuition, that's fingerspritzing of fuel. So inside of the OODA loop there's actually a pathway that describes this and we have another way to explain this through the entropic OODA loop, which borrows from Carhart-Harris' work on the entropic brain and psychedelic psychotherapy. I just want to point this out, that most people, when they talk about the OODA loop, they look at the basic OODA. The pathways matter here and what we've discovered is, when you look at what we call implicit guidance, control, intuition, type zero, type one cognition system, one thinking, it actually is built into the OODA loop to describe what's happening and you brought up maybe ETs and things like that.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 39:50

I didn't mention ETs, uap.

Brian "Ponch" Rivera: 39:53

So UAP is UFOs, yeah, uap, yeah, yeah.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 39:55

As a stigma, an example of stigma Right.

Brian "Ponch" Rivera: 39:57

So, just adding on to this conversation here, when we're in a flow state no matter how we're in a flow state again, this connects to my view of we're connected to that outside information we get novelty from somewhere. It doesn't matter where, but it comes from somewhere. We generally find that when we're working out prayer, meditation, yoga, psychedelics, assisted therapies, whatever it may be, sound therapy, sitting in an egg, which I've done before, which is pretty cool, so you get connected to your inner self, those interceptive things, those senses that we normally don't pay attention to. Is there any chance that that's happening full-time for Sarah's kids and things like that.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 40:38

Well, so can you put that back on the screen, what you just showed? Sure so I have a critique, which is that that arrow from you know, so you circled the implicit guidance and control. Yeah, there needs to be an arrow that goes to the orientation and it needs to be an arrow that goes to decision. All of those areas are influenced and actually controlled by this unconscious processing.

Brian "Ponch" Rivera: 41:07

I don't disagree with you at all.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 41:08

So it just needs an arrow over the whole thing, like one giant arrow that says by the way, do you know who's running this?

Brian "Ponch" Rivera: 41:15

So that's the external environment right.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 41:17

Potentially, we don't know Well, but it's also the internal environment, like the parts of your brain that are implicitly processing things. In other words, what is internal and external? Are you saying external to the OODA loop? This is the crux of it is where do you locate the self?

Brian "Ponch" Rivera: 41:33

So the OODA loop is scale-free. So think of it around your cells any living system, a statistical boundary where you and I define that boundary. That's what we decide. What's on the inside and the outside? And I think you would agree that there is no. We're all one, we're all connected, right. So there are no boundaries between us, right? The way I understand Well no, I don't.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 41:53

I wouldn't agree with that. Hold on. My laptop has decided it didn't soak up power. Somehow it's not accepted, so okay. No, somehow it's not accepted. The pilot, that's so okay, um, no. So the? The problem with saying that there's there's no boundary and we're all connected is that it's false. There is a boundary. When I hurt myself, you don't feel the pain. You feel it empathically, but you don't physically feel it. My body, right, so the? The location of the eye is like this sacred thing. When I say the eye, I mean the capital, I, the self, is this sort of sacred thing, when I say the I, I mean the capital, I, the self.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 42:23

Is this sort of sacred thing we put into these. We have these bodies, like our experience. The observer has the experience of my body being different from your body. So that's a gift. That's the nature of what it means to be in a body, right To be a person. So to say that everything's connected is like so imprecise, because it's not acknowledging the sacred learning that comes with here. I am in this body, right, and of course we're all connected on some level, because what is in this body? Well, this is like a soul or like a spirit, or like an observer, and that observer is an observer of the entire universe. So that is the connection across, right.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 43:05

So there's duality in the presence of non-duality, and so it bugs me, it just you just trigger me. It just bugs me when people are like, ah, everything's connected. It's like, well then, why have OODA? I mean, you're trying to create boundaries so we can understand what it is to be in this world of dualism, because that's the world in which we live.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 43:23

Non-speakers are living in this non-dual space and desperately trying to figure out how to operate in this dual space, and we're trying to understand, like, oh my gosh, what's happening for them, that they're finding this hard, holy cow, it's because they're living in this other space and so they have to learn to operate here these rules. But also, if there's a way we can support them in their gifts of still understanding non-duality, that would be great. And then we are trying to learn to operate a little bit more in their world so that we can understand the gifts of non-duality. So I feel like going back to the OODA loop critique. It's all it feels to me. It's all about privileging what's in that rational sort of OODA series and flipping that. If we could start to understand, like, what's driving that, that's that would be really powerful. You know what I'm saying. Does that make sense?

Brian "Ponch" Rivera: 44:19

It does. It does. You know? I think, fundamentally, you and I are going to disagree on the OODA loop, and that's fine. What I'm saying is we have an internal whatever map that has genetics, cultural, our previous experience, that generates our experience of the world. I'd say that you and I agree with that. The connectedness is the connectedness through information, whatever. Potentially consciousness is global, right, we agree on that. Yeah, but individually, we're experiencing this world through our boundary, which you described, which can be our skin, right? Yeah, I don't know. I may go further out, to the extended environment as well. So to me, if we back up a little bit and you help me out and understand this, our consciousness is potentially connected. Is that true? Like?

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 45:02

global consciousness. It's tricky because consciousness we sort of use consciousness in funky ways.

Brian "Ponch" Rivera: 45:07

Yeah.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 45:08

Like many people, think of consciousness as the observer. Like my consciousness is when I experience sitting in this chair and talking with you. That's my consciousness, experiencing that, and that's kind of like a neuroscientific. That's how I was trained to think about consciousness. But there's this sort of cosmic consciousness that people talk about, or capital big C consciousness, which is like a universal wisdom or knowing, almost like a godlike consciousness, universal love type of consciousness. And so I really love it when people define what they're talking about, because there's incredibly different implications for those.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 45:41

One is very personal and is connected to the eternal and the other is eternal and it's not clear how it's connected to the personal. But using the same word for both, I get all like I get my knickers in a twist. But I don't think we agree about. I don't think we disagree about anything. Actually, I think that we both agree that the OODA loop is a description of what these conscious processes are. I'm just wanting people to ask the question where am I Look at the OODA loop? Where is yourself? Where do you put yourself? And I think the answer is different for non-speakers.

Brian "Ponch" Rivera: 46:17

Can we go there some more? So how would I say this? It is just in my head a non-speaker has a completely different life experience than we do and I can't understand what they're going through. And I can't understand what you're going through. That's all conscious listening. It is possible, and this is you know, ponch being Ponch, that the mutants in this story are us, are me.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 46:39

Yeah, it's very possible story.

Brian "Ponch" Rivera: 46:43

are us, are me? Yeah, it's very possible. And next door, vani and Sarah's children are experiencing a world that exists, that you and I are not experiencing at the moment.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 46:48

That's 100% what I think is going on. But in terms of mutants, I don't think we have to call anyone mutants. I think that we can say that it's harder for Sarah's two neurodivergent kids to function in this world than it is for her neurotypically developing kid. I mean, I think that's just true. So I don't think we have to label anyone mutants. But I do think that of course they're accessing something that's real because, well, partly because I've done research with them and it's very clear that they're accessing something that's real, but partly because you can tell just by interacting with them, it's real to them for sure.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 47:27

And we trust other people whose bodies if it's. I mean, you have this thing where if your body functions well, we're going to trust what you say about your experience. If your body doesn't function so well, we're skeptical. So we really have this bias. Neurotypical people and I'm sort of vaguely neurotypical, but probably more than that's not right. Like all of us, I don't even think neurotypical exists, but anyway, More on that later, More on that later. But neurotypically developing people, let's say, or more neurotypically developing people, have this bias that from the outside of a person you can tell how much you should trust the inside of a person and that's all over like what I was saying before about, like New York, social politics and the wealth situation and it's wrong. It's incorrect and it can be used to manipulate people. You have someone who's very charismatic and moves their body in a very beautiful way, et cetera. It's easy for that person to manipulate One of the things that.

Sarah Kernion: 48:27

I hear you saying is about observing them and holding the suspension that everything that they're experiencing, that I get to witness more than anyone else in this world, the observations of mine are real and what they're experiencing and allowing me to see, because they have agency and worth and value in being alive, is also real, and that's the suspension that I live with and has led me to where I am now, which is a basic quote of when people show you who they are, believe them.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 49:05

Yes, and I'm sure you've had to let go of biases that say, because you move your body or you sing the Barney song or whatever it is, I shouldn't trust what you're expressing to me, right? I mean, that's a big bias To the nth degreeth degree. Yeah, you're not supposed to act that way and movement, especially especially in like upper class culture movement, is a no-no. You're supposed to be able to like sit in your chair quietly, like this and answer questions. And actually I know of a school in texas that interviewed one of my son's friends for a job that actually will punish you as a student in kindergarten if you move out of your chairs during six hours of kindergarten.

Sarah Kernion: 49:49

You know, there's also schools in New York City, though, that I believe are doing the work to understand why these movements should be harnessed and given time to move and actually do those things within the classroom, so that the accommodations are not seen perceptually as one thing but the integration of it becomes unconscious to the typical observer in the classroom.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 50:15

Well, yes, and when I was in, I was at an event called the Colors of Ostrava in the Czech Republic and I was speaking with a Czech teacher. We were having lunch at some food court or something and I was just talking with her about what she did. I used Google Translate because I don't speak Czech, but we had this great conversation about education and she said well, you know, of course, we use the stair method for math in the younger grades. And I'm like, no, what? Of course what? And she's like, wait, you don't use the stair method. And I'm like I don't know what you're talking about.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 50:48

And then she described this method of every classroom. Every Czech classroom for mathematics has this stair in the younger grades where you learn to add and subtract. You go up a stair, down a stair, up two stairs. I mean it's so obvious. She's like that's so obvious, they learn it super quick and then they have it in their bodies for the rest of their life. I'm like, oh, so anyway, there are schools starting to pick up on this reality that this, this kind of work, actually movement actually is not a bad thing, and I mean like it was originally done.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 51:32

I believe, to differentiate wealthy upper class folks from, like, black people who move a lot. I actually think that was the differentiation. Like dancing, part of the culture, movement, part of work. That means you're like a menial laborer, right, you're focused on your body, not your mind. It's so weird. So anyway, that's being undone now.

Sarah Kernion: 51:46

But that also reminds me something of community, where if the community celebrates movement, that means the collective consciousness of the community is celebrating the movement of all individuals.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 51:56

So there's not the standout point of any movement being wrong yeah, exactly, and so if someone moves in a funky way, they move in a funky way and then people say, ah, she dance funky. I certainly move in a funky way, so I relate to that, but you know I'm not as funky as many non-speakers. And so, yeah, there's all these cultural signals that we pick up on to differentiate, and I understand differentiation, like different cultures are different, and it feels good to be in a new culture. The problem comes when a culture punishes you or says that you're less than based on some differentiation. That's a problem. It's okay to have different cultural opinions, but it's the punishing and stigmatization.

Sarah Kernion: 52:38

You know, if you saw, I'm sure, avani next door punch and if you saw specifically my daughter Millie experience joy and what those sounds and movements look like to the unaccepting eye, it's a little jarring, it's a little uncomfortable, contorts her in a way that is a little bit you. The best version would be curious and maybe the negative would be that's not okay. But the way in which her joy comes out is something that I just I love. I love to see it. But you have to withhold anything more than deep curiosity.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 53:17

It has to only be curious to it, because if there's a pattern that you are forcing upon joy, it has to only be curious to it, because if there's a pattern that you are forcing upon joy, we've lost all hope. Well, right, and this is where the unconditional love comes in is because if you make the assumption that everyone, without exceptions, doing the best they can at any one time, based on what they have, and that includes everything in their OODA loop environment, that includes everything, and that everyone deserves to be loved, right, everybody. If you make that assumption, then the question becomes ooh, how can we help people really thrive and how can we help give them more resources and more tools so that all their gifts can come to the surface? And that is going to be a cultural revolution. That has to do with saying the inside matters, the stuff you can't see matters, and trusting and presuming competence, which doesn't mean if someone does something bad or that hurts you, you don't get to say like, hey, you're going to be isolated from society or that's not okay.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 54:18

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that the love supports nurturing growth from what's inside. We all have this seed inside and you can't detect the seed. You can't detect the tree that's going to grow out of a seed. Each tree is different, even in the same species. You can't detect what that's going to look like by looking at the seed. You just can't. And that's what people are trying to do and that's what goes on.

Sarah Kernion: 54:45

I couldn't agree more I couldn't agree more. Oh, can you hear us?

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 55:08

Well, what I was saying was the seed, my.

Sarah Kernion: 55:09

this is like wait a minute this is like an example of what we were just talking about. I agree percent. I can go get my spell to communicate board and I'll start spelling.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 55:18

Yeah, I feel like I'm having the experience, like I don't know what you're signing over there, sarah, but I've I believe it. But I feel like I'm having the experience. I don't know what you're signing over there, sarah, but I believe it. But I feel like I'm having the experience of Look at the board. Hold on, I'm going to unplug my microphone for a second and see if I can do it free.

Sarah Kernion: 55:31

The dining room cabinet to the right. I'm going to get the spell to communicate board if she can't get back on.

Brian "Ponch" Rivera: 55:37

All right, she's getting back on.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 55:39

Hello, we can hear you. I mean, it's worse audio quality, but I can hear you. I can't switch mics, okay, so I'm going to unplug my microphone and go with the, okay.

Brian "Ponch" Rivera: 55:50

That works. So let's pick this back up. I want to shift gears a little bit, if you don't mind, going to things like Chris Bledsoe's UFO God or taking a look at the UAPs that are being discussed and let me make a connection here. In talking to Maria, I understand that Avani has access to things and entities that are out there right, and we're hearing about this from other fields. I brought up Andrew Gallimore's work on DMT, where he talks about certain DMTs will get you access to different entities, different elf-like creatures, and people are reporting this and it's not a dream state. That's what they're reporting. So a question to you Are there are non-speakers having access to that and do these things actually exist, these UAPs that are being described off the East Coast or West Coast?

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 56:38

Whoops, yeah, for sure we know from actual DOD and intelligence, you can hear me. For sure we know from actual DOD and intelligence reports that UAP exists, right? So I mean, I'm certainly not the person to speak to that, because I don't at this at this point. I just read those reports and I say, well, I believe that that's true. Um, I believe there are things in our skies and under the water that we don't understand, and I think they're, you know, probably a combination of many different things. Um, so that's all I can like in an informed way.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 57:10

Say about that in terms of when you're talking about uap being in contact with non-speakers, um, or, I think I think the more agnostic way to say that is non-human intelligence, although I don't really love that term. But like, we don't know if UAP are actually kind of intelligences or they're kind of drones, or maybe there's a mechanism for that, right? So let's talk about non-human intelligences. I think that there are people, and certainly non-speakers, who report that experience. It's very difficult to test whether so when people report similar experiences like someone on DMT, a bunch of people were reporting similar experiences you listen to their experience and if they're similar, you say, well, there's something about DMT, let's say that makes the brain have these experiences. Now, what is the relationship between some kind of reality and those experiences? That's a really hard question to sort out, but there's for sure something about DMT that makes people have those experiences, just like, you would say, there's for sure something about non-speakers' brains that they have in common that allows them to have these experiences of going to the hell and talking to dead people or whatever it is that they're talking. Maybe some of them talk with non-human intelligences or have that experience, right?

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 58:29

So the trick that people often try to do then is say but is that real? And what I want to say is what do you mean by real? Like we keep privileging matter. Like, is there actually a green triangle that floats around and commands things I don't know? Like, what do you mean by? Is there actually? Like, do you mean is it a physical object? Probably not. Are physical objects the things that control the universe? Probably not. You know, it's like it's all. The human brain has to try to translate all of this informational stuff, at least in this model, with informational substrate bumbling up like a blueprint for what we call reality, material reality. The human brain has to translate all of that informational stuff into something that makes sense. And sense makes sense really is put it into some one of my five senses, please make sense, that's right.

Sarah Kernion: 59:21

That's right, you know, I hear you saying. I hear you saying about the substrate, the substrate, and my thought is that when I witness and put my children in pool or the ocean, that their implicit guidance and control if we're going to go back to oodle loop sketch is deeply at work because they know what to do somehow and harmonize with the water, which is, you know, their environment and the medium that is allowing for me to observe things that I don't typically observe in them. And when that is produced over and over and over again, that challenges the assumption that their reality isn't real. It is real and what they are experiencing is real. And then I see it become real through their bodies, experiencing and showing me their internal substrate of what they are in their consciousness, in a different capacity.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 1:00:19

That's right their consciousness in a different capacity. That's right. We, we, we rely on those external cues. But you're always as a mother of two non-speakers, I imagine you're always also relying on internal, essentially psychic or psychic pain, but like telepathic information and a connection, and then you're looking for external cues to validate that that's right, that's how we have to move forward.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 1:00:45

That's all we can do. That's like you're doing this identity method. So that's really beautiful and it makes me want to ask are they spellers? They have begun their spelling journey. They have begun their spelling journey.

Sarah Kernion: 1:00:56

It's been incredible. It's been incredible, isn't it?

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 1:00:57

incredible. Where are they in terms of are they open or are they? Where are they?

Sarah Kernion: 1:01:09

have they said things yet? They've answered questions. They have been with their facilitated communicator and it has been. It began in late spring of last year. They had a summer break of a month and a half and they are back to it now. I'm in the process of becoming a certified spelling partner as well communication partner and when.

Sarah Kernion: 1:01:26

I have observed them after they did their first six to eight weeks in their school and I'm so glad I recorded it because when you see it you are in the presence of such a deep wonder and amazement and they're answering things so quickly and so simply, while also doing the things that you've observed as a mother, for you know, seven, eight, nine, 10 years.

Sarah Kernion: 1:01:59

There's also something that I witnessed as well was that my daughter was with her one-on-one aid very far across the room from when my son was with the STC therapist, and I'm watching and witnessing and observing him and he's showing me that he's answering all these beautiful questions about monarch butterflies. And then the level of teaching was not much higher than a whisper and my daughter came over and started answering questions about monarch butterflies without even being asked. Now, I would never put it past either of them to have found a way through the hundreds of visual dictionaries. I have to learn about monarch butterflies already. And yet she was not even taught yet. And the connection between the two of them is so profound and when you watch it you can't unsee how typical their conscious connection is as siblings beyond even just being both non-speakers. So again, when you witness it and see it in action, you cannot not suspend your belief.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 1:03:08

Yep, yep, I totally get it. And what an important thing to discover from humanity. You know, I just feel like this is and that's why I'm so. I'm so grateful that Telepathy Tapes folks reached out to me and I'm grateful to have done some work that they filmed for their new documentary, because it's really a movement of humanity to start to recognize like there's so much power here. Are you kidding me? And it can be used for good, and in fact, I almost think that it has to be used for good. I almost think that you I mean this can sound Pollyanna-ish, and I want to say like I'm very aware that there are attempts to use this kind of stuff for not good, but regardless, I think there are some ways in which it has to be used for good or else it doesn't work.

Sarah Kernion: 1:04:00

For me it goes back to unconditional, unconditional love, if, if this can, this can their lives their lives, their experience their experience. If being their mother has done anything, it has shown me that unconditional love exists yes, so we'll.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 1:04:21

We're doing a crowdfunding campaign for two new projects through my nonprofit, silt, the Institute for Love and Time. I'll put that out on LinkedIn. Linkedin is my only social, so if you want to connect with me, connect with me on LinkedIn or follow me and I'll put out the crowdfunding campaign for those two things. And one will be a new spelling curriculum in the context of the whole child, the whole person, and the other will be a study using neurostimulation, using baseball cap neurostimulation, very low voltage so that we can see very low current, so that we can see if certain working with Dr Jeff Terentamai to see if we can do low current, non-invasive stimulation to support non-speakers getting in their body, moving towards unconditional love for themselves and reducing their anxiety when they're in a learning situation, because many of them are traumatized from past.

Julia Mossbridge, PhD: 1:05:10

Yes, yes. So those are important things. Obviously, the second season of Telepathy Tates. I don't work for them, but I'm very impressed with them. So that's coming up in October. So watch out for that. Just know that you are loved and work towards helping that love bloom.

Brian "Ponch" Rivera: 1:05:29

Well, thanks to both of you for being here today, Sarah and Julia. I really appreciate it. I'll keep you on here after we stop recording, but thanks again for your time.

Sarah Kernion: 1:05:38

Thank you, thank you.